Live data from Hacker News

Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

dailyherald.com

11–20 of 202 posts

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless it's well-covered by other sources, I would kindly ask you to blog your observations and share them with us :)

I certainly will.

Thanks in advance for reporting back! Saving the thread here, to read it later..

As the teacher said, the focus should be on the survey, not his acts. Of course, provided that he doesn't suffer any unfair and ridiculous disciplinary actions.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#12
Does this kind of survey make any sense? Why should somebody answer honestly if the survey is not anonymous and you don't want to admit something? If you want to admit something, such an survey may at best catalyze it. Therefore I would expect that the result of such an survey just does not reflect reality.

You could cross check answers of a well designed survey to get an indication if the answers are honest or not but this does not nearly bring the result close to an anonymous but more honestly answered survey.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#13
post #3

"But John Dryden said he's not the point. He wants people to focus on the issue he raised: Whether school officials considered that students could incriminate themselves with their answers to the survey that included questions about drug and alcohol use." To me, that sounds like an unusually thoughtful social studies teacher. He is relating the general concepts that he is hired to teach his students to a real-world s…

I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.

It's copyrighted information. How much could be released under "fair use" is questionable. Schools abuse copyright in some ways, and probably compensate by being rigorous in others.

Further, if it comes from a company that also offers more conventional achievement kinds of tests, it may come with bloodthirsty NDAs, as a matter of habit for such companies.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#14
post #7
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really want to understand this "proprietary information" excuse the school is using to justify not releasing the survey. Certainly the kids can go home and tell their parents what they saw (and some have). The kids didn't sign an NDA, they saw it, so why can't we see it? This story is happening in my town. There is a public hearing tomorrow night and I plan on attending.

My guess is that the survey was bought from a private company on a contract that says it is that company's property and not to be shared. Therefore if the school released the form, they could be sued by said private company both for violating copyright and contract. (And the company would want that because they want to resell the survey to other schools.) Stupid, yes. But I think it is likely that the school has a re…

It basically says that in the article. It's not completely unequivocal, but close.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#15
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the school's zero tolerance policy, students who reveal alcohol or drug use are expelled at no risk to the school. I don't agree with their method but it is pretty simple.

Wow. Are the students told that beforehand? I think a shocking consequence is students will now feel unsafe telling the truth about troubling events (abuse, etc.)

> students will now feel unsafe telling the truth about troubling events

That's the idea -- helping those students is a significant and easily ignored cost center.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#16
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the school's zero tolerance policy, students who reveal alcohol or drug use are expelled at no risk to the school. I don't agree with their method but it is pretty simple.

Wow. Are the students told that beforehand? I think a shocking consequence is students will now feel unsafe telling the truth about troubling events (abuse, etc.)

Cynical-me thinks this is ideal education - proper preparation for "the real world": Answer every question not with "the truth", but instead work out what "the expected answer" is and give them that...

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#17
post #8
post #4

Did they risk manage this survey? What do they do if a student reveals an alcohol problem? Or sexual abuse? Or criminal behaviour? It's potentially a good idea, but they should have thought it through a bit more before. EDIT: The company selling the tests have a lot of product available. ( http://www.mhs.com/Education.aspx ) EDIT: I might be annoyed if schools are buying these tests instead of textbooks.

Per the school's zero tolerance policy, students who reveal alcohol or drug use are expelled at no risk to the school. I don't agree with their method but it is pretty simple.

You sure about that? That'd be downright idiotic.

My school did something similar, but the surveys were anonymous and simply used for aggregate statistics - which sounds infinitely more effective than what this school is doing, anyway.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#18
post #16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Are the students told that beforehand? I think a shocking consequence is students will now feel unsafe telling the truth about troubling events (abuse, etc.)

Cynical-me thinks this is ideal education - proper preparation for "the real world": Answer every question not with "the truth", but instead work out what "the expected answer" is and give them that...

I've hounded my kids on "the expected answer" many times. Recently my son was told to write an essay on gun control. I shudder to think what might've happened had he not given the expected conclusion on that one.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#19
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the school's zero tolerance policy, students who reveal alcohol or drug use are expelled at no risk to the school. I don't agree with their method but it is pretty simple.

You sure about that? That'd be downright idiotic. My school did something similar, but the surveys were anonymous and simply used for aggregate statistics - which sounds infinitely more effective than what this school is doing, anyway.

I'm not positive but very confident. These surveys are not anonymous, says the article. School administrators are required to adhere to the zero tolerance policy to the letter.

Re: Teacher under fire for informing kids of their Fifth Amendment rights

#20
post #16
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Are the students told that beforehand? I think a shocking consequence is students will now feel unsafe telling the truth about troubling events (abuse, etc.)

Cynical-me thinks this is ideal education - proper preparation for "the real world": Answer every question not with "the truth", but instead work out what "the expected answer" is and give them that...

Which was the whole point the teacher was making - you have a right to not incriminate yourself (by giving a false answer or not answering), even when asked by authority figures (judges, police, teachers) to do so.

A lot of people feel that they must fill in every value of every form "or else". While really, if you value your privacy you should ask if every value is really required.

Post reply on HN