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Sucks to be an old engineer

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Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#91

Post by smcl »

rayiner wrote: post #30
gems wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it looked down upon if you don't go up in the ranks as you age?

This is true in most fields. In the officer ranks of the military, you're generally forced into retirement if you're passed up for promotion twice. In many government jobs, you're forced out if one of your former subordinates is promoted past you.

Only twice? I've never know the ins and outs of the military (and ex-PFC Wintergreen is the closest I'll probably ever know to people being demoted or missing promotion) however this seems incredibly harsh.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#92

Post by smcl »

gems wrote: post #78
cpeterso wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Google still care about people's undergraduate GPAs from 25 years ago? When my friend interviewed at Google (they did hire him), the recruiter wanted to know how many hours per week he worked (to pay his tuition) at university 25 years ago to account for his "low" undergraduate GPA (3.0 - 3.5).

What would happen if you didn't remember your gpa? It is shocking that they would ask something like that though.

GPA seems to be an American thing. I graduated Uni in 2007 (in Scotland) and I've never been asked mine.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#94

Post by jarek »

ihsw wrote: post #85
zerr wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder at what rates one might work at these ages.

At that age the rates are irrelevant compared to the health insurance compensation. Most people at that age would be willing to take a pay cut in exchange for generous health benefits and flexible hours.

I must have missed the part where MetaCosm stated his developer was buying health insurance in an age-discriminating market.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#95

Post by [deleted] »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #69
cletus wrote: post #62

This post is touching on two issues that are somewhat related but different: 1. Finding ANY job when you're 60 is hard; 2. Engineers (who are still engineers) at 40+ will often be passed over in favour of twentysomethings. Engineering is such a young industry that I'm not sure we've really faced (1) yet (since the number of people who started engineering in the 70s is but a drop in the ocean compared to the number in…

How well does "move into management at 40" scale? If anything I would have thought there would be more 40-60 year olds in the work force than 20-40 year olds (or at least a close number). So either some of them have to move into management of non technical staff or you end up with a very top heavy management structure. Tech companies seem to prefer a flatter management structure to avoid too much bureaucracy.

[deleted]

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#96

Post by michaelochurch »

cpeterso wrote: post #53
MetaCosm wrote: post #42

"""When not even a Stanford or MIT engineering degree is good enough to keep an engineer employed at 60, there is genuinely no market for engineers that age. Plan accordingly.""" Wait, what I did 40 years ago won't guarantee my employment now?!? What is this insanity, I thought once I got my degree in 1973 I was done with all this "learning" nonsense. How can I be expected to just keep updating my skills?

Why does Google still care about people's undergraduate GPAs from 25 years ago? When my friend interviewed at Google (they did hire him), the recruiter wanted to know how many hours per week he worked (to pay his tuition) at university 25 years ago to account for his "low" undergraduate GPA (3.0 - 3.5).

A lot of those annoying interview questions are just tests to see how someone handles borderline-insulting questions about their past. It's to see how the person handles stress.

It's not a practice I like, but it's something everyone will have to face. The older you get, the more people want to know about your past (which is rarely as good as it should have been).

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#97

Post by disbelief »

Angostura wrote: post #74
samfisher83 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an industry like O&G or energy experience is highly valued. When you have you have potentially billions of dollars on the line and many peoples lives with an oil platform you want someone who has done it before. In tech you are trying to make something no one has done before so you want the young hungry engineer.

> In tech you are trying to make something no one has done before so you want the young hungry engineer. Alternatively, choose the older engineer with the experience to know: "You know what? Fundamentally, what we're building here is the same as this thing from 10 years ago".

Exactly. Just because you're trying to accomplish something "no one has done yet" doesn't mean that you aren't going to be building on top of things (software, frameworks, paradigms) that have been around, at scale, for years. The older engineer is more likely to realize when a problem has already been solved, or during a crisis can connect the dots from previous experiences to find the solution.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#98

Post by michaelochurch »

perlgeek wrote: post #51

I've witnessed the exact opposite. My father stayed an engineer when most of his peers became managers; many of them became unhappy over time, and quite a few died from heart attacks before reaching 60. OTOH my father, now in retirement, still occasionally works as a freelancer, because he still enjoys the job, and his skill is in demand.

My father stayed an engineer when most of his peers became managers; many of them became unhappy over time, and quite a few died from heart attacks before reaching 60.

Yeah, I realized that I disliked management (the concept) when I realized that managing is, in most cases, just as bad as being managed.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#99

Post by tibbon »

Maybe its because I'm not old (30), but the sentiment of this post strikes me as bullshit.

At any age, if you've got something unique to offer and can contribute- you can get hired. If you've let your skills lapse, or have become inflexible then that's a different problem.

New immigrants I don't view as a problem at all, but rather an opportunity for us to increase the size of the market overall. There's work enough for all, as long as you've got something to contribute.

Maybe at one point 35 years ago simply having a degree from somewhere great was enough. I don't see that today as being a thing that makes someone immediately awesome.

Invest daily in your education. It doesn't stop when you're 22. Today, instead of doing consulting- I'm learning about Google's Polymer framework/platform.

Re: Sucks to be an old engineer

#100

Post by ShabbyDoo »

Whenever I read an article drawing conclusions about the world based on interviews with those attending a school reunion, I consider the inherent selection bias. If I'm an unemployed 60-something, I might consider a class reunion to be a great networking opportunity. And, of course, my time has a low opportunity cost. Conversely, am I willing to fly across the country for the weekend if I'm working a lot and need to be in the office on Monday morning? Also, those whose lives at age 60 aren't all that fulfilling professionally or otherwise might be more likely to attend a reunion where the could be reminded of better times. [I say this as someone excited to attend my 20 year high school reunion this summer.] A survey of Stanford engineering graduates done by random selection would be much more interesting.
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