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US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

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Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#231
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people also think using animal products isn't ethical and inconvenience themselves to avoid it. But you probably don't want to build a mass market business on that. For the record, I don't pirate music anymore. Spotify has made pirating too inconvenient.

> Some people also think using animal products isn't ethical and inconvenience themselves to avoid it. But you probably don't want to build a mass market business on that. Vegan products are mass market commodity goods like any grocery. Just because vegan goods consist of a smaller slice of all grocery and food sales doesn't mean you'd be a fool to make a business out of it.

Point. But I don't think the MPAA and RIAA are after the market of "people who find it more unethical to pirate than they find it inconvenient to consume legally"

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#232
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not as unlikely as you may think. All it takes is the right bug in a virtio driver, and they can go from vm-root to host-user, and assuming some level of competence they can go from host-user to host-root. Of course, you're welcome not to use any virtio devices, and you're welcome not to use hardware virtualisation support, but the performance of your guest will not be much to write home about.

Of course it is possible that they find holes, but I consider the odds that they will find holes like that early enough that countermeasures won't already be deployed in a situation where people have come to expect destructive actions from their software on a regular basis to be quite unlikely. Also OS level virtualization is not the only protection worth using in a scenario like this. Sandboxing at the syscall level…

> Of course it is possible that they find holes, but I consider the odds that they will find holes like that early enough that countermeasures won't already be deployed in a situation where people have come to expect destructive actions from their software on a regular basis to be quite unlikely.

That's incredibly optimistic.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#233

This is not going to go where they think it will go. Right now their enemies are just pirates wanting to watch Game Of Thrones for free. A business threat, certainly, but one they're generally handling well. But start infecting people's computers, and a portion of them are going to fight back. Then the entertainment industry has enemies actively trying to destroy their systems. A whole different level of conflict, an…

I want to watch Game of Thrones and pay for it. I also want it available within a day of it's original airing and without having to buy cable or a TV. Charge me for HBO. Just don't make me wait a year before I can buy the video. You can even make me buy the HD version when I only want to pay for standard definition.

It's out on itunes the same day in HD for $3.5 an episode (unless you are in australia).

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to watch Game of Thrones and pay for it. I also want it available within a day of it's original airing and without having to buy cable or a TV. Charge me for HBO. Just don't make me wait a year before I can buy the video. You can even make me buy the HD version when I only want to pay for standard definition.

It's out on itunes the same day in HD for $3.5 an episode (unless you are in australia).

Season 3 isn't out on itunes in Canada at all yet. The only way for me to watch Season 3 is to subscribe to the $100/month + $20/month cable package that carries HBO.

I've not bothered to pirate it, yet.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#235
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out one important point: 6. Convenience. I believe that the content industry is relying on a sufficient number of people still finding it easier to buy a DVD/Bluray rather than pirate. For technical people, pirating is already sometimes more convenient for reasons that you stated. There is also a 7. Ethics Some people do not find pirating ethical under any circumstances, and will inconvenience themselves to…

Some people also think using animal products isn't ethical and inconvenience themselves to avoid it. But you probably don't want to build a mass market business on that. For the record, I don't pirate music anymore. Spotify has made pirating too inconvenient.

And that's the problem - you might as well keep pirating as Spotify isn't helping any artist while users think they're doing the noble thing.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#236
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think OP was talking about average-Joe's understanding of safety. The "if I buy original version, it won't have viruses on it that break my computer". This is true so far, DRMs or not, and people trust legal media. But the moment this trust gets broken, there will be little reason to go to shop instead of Pirate Bay.

Actually, there's been at least one instance of legally purchased media installing spyware, the Sony rootkit scandal that's already come up in this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootki...

Yeah, and there are lots and lots of instances of illegaly gotten media installing spyware. You don't need a perfect track record to be the safest option.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#237
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out one important point: 6. Convenience. I believe that the content industry is relying on a sufficient number of people still finding it easier to buy a DVD/Bluray rather than pirate. For technical people, pirating is already sometimes more convenient for reasons that you stated. There is also a 7. Ethics Some people do not find pirating ethical under any circumstances, and will inconvenience themselves to…

Some people also think using animal products isn't ethical and inconvenience themselves to avoid it. But you probably don't want to build a mass market business on that. For the record, I don't pirate music anymore. Spotify has made pirating too inconvenient.

Gabe Newell of Valve Software has famously said that piracy is a distribution problem, and I fully believe he's right.

> “The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work,” Newell said. “It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates.”

Steam single-handedly killed even the temptation to pirate games for me, because it's ridiculously convenient to just fire up Steam, click a button, and have the game delivered to my desktop at multi-megabit speeds without any obnoxious DRM getting in the way of me being able to play. Pandora, Spotify, and most recently Google All Access make music piracy a complete non-issue for me, because I don't want to have to spend time chasing down a song or even futzing with iTunes - I just punch something into search and it's playing. Netflix and Hulu provide so much content that I can't watch all of it - while they don't always have the most recent content, they have a lot of it.

Provide me a service that is a. affordable (Steam Sales and $8/month for movies or music are excellent models here, content folks) b. convenient (click button, enjoy content), and c. reliable (no explanation necessary) and I won't have any incentive to pirate content.

I'm convinced that the people who can afford stuff but pirate it anyway do so because of distribution problems in getting that content legally. The people who pirate stuff who can't afford it, or wouldn't buy it if they can are arguably even a net benefit - they aren't lost sales, but they increase the reach and visibility of the product. In either case, it's not really worth worrying about them (though the studios sure do love to gripe about them as if they're all lost sales), which leaves us with one very easy solution - have the best distribution channel available, and people will pay for it. At that point, piracy is about as solved as it'll get from an economic standpoint.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#238
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people also think using animal products isn't ethical and inconvenience themselves to avoid it. But you probably don't want to build a mass market business on that. For the record, I don't pirate music anymore. Spotify has made pirating too inconvenient.

And that's the problem - you might as well keep pirating as Spotify isn't helping any artist while users think they're doing the noble thing.

But people don't listen to music to benefit the artists (even when they purchase a CD or whatever) -- they do it for themselves.

Artists make the vast majority of their money on tour, which is more or less unrelated to the choice of distribution channel, except that a more prolific channel results in more people attending a show.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#239
post #96
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also want the ability to shoot anybody I dislike at will, but make it so no one else would have this ability. But fortunately for our civilization, it is not rules by what I like. That's why if you suspect somebody stole a car from you, you can not just make it blow up - you have to call the police. If you suspect somebody stole a software from you, should you be allowed to blow up their computer? In the same…

Based on your comment, I can see that you have not read the paper. The section with rootkits is about thwarting active, targeted cyber espionage. Organizations should have the right to protect files on their own networks by any reasonable means. They are not proposing a mechanism by which organizations would be allowed to distribute rootkits. I certainly have the right to disable my car remotely if it is stolen. I al…

I doubt you have the right to cut off the engine while the car is being driven. Also in the example cases you mentioned you have the right to do something with property that is legally yours. The problem comes in the fact that someone else's computer is not your property so no you should not be allowed to install rootkits and take control of their computer. The best example of what your talking about is DRM which is already legal.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#240
post #99

What qualities do people look for when buying movies and music? 1. The content they want. 2. Quality (i.e. resolution, bitrate, etc.) 3. Reliability (it actually plays) 4. Low annoyance (no ads, warnings, etc.) 5. Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.) The movie and music industries haven't done a perfect job of delivering #1-4. Region coding means the content users want is frequently only available through p…

You left out one important point: 6. Convenience. I believe that the content industry is relying on a sufficient number of people still finding it easier to buy a DVD/Bluray rather than pirate. For technical people, pirating is already sometimes more convenient for reasons that you stated. There is also a 7. Ethics Some people do not find pirating ethical under any circumstances, and will inconvenience themselves to…

Agreed, I find the ethics of the recording industry extremely distasteful. Whenever I pay for music I feel like I'm giving money to a mobster.
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