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US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

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Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#141

Post by troels »

shmerl wrote: post #110
beloch wrote: post #99

What qualities do people look for when buying movies and music? 1. The content they want. 2. Quality (i.e. resolution, bitrate, etc.) 3. Reliability (it actually plays) 4. Low annoyance (no ads, warnings, etc.) 5. Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.) The movie and music industries haven't done a perfect job of delivering #1-4. Region coding means the content users want is frequently only available through p…

#5 Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.)... was the one thing that legally purchased media had an undeniable edge in over pirated media. Disagreed. Sony rootkit was on the legally purchased media. DRM on streaming services can do all kind of stuff without users consent. DRM built into hardware with cameras can do even weirder stuff (just note the crazy DRM idea patented by Microsoft regarding detecting the p…

I think that was the OP's point really. But you're right in that it has already happened with DRM - rootkits are just the natural next step in this direction.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#142

Post by krichman »

TheBiv wrote: post #9

I tried to be rational and then I got to the second paragraph of their own brief: "The second and even more pernicious effect is that illegal theft of intellectual property is undermining both the means and the incentive for entrepreneurs to innovate, which will slow the development of new inventions and industries that can further expand the world economy and continue to raise the prosperity and quality of life for…

1. Their intellectual property is not being stolen, it's impossible to "steal" a digital file. Their rights are being infringed.

2. The major thing retarding development of new inventions and industries are the wealthy luddites digging their feet in and trying to extract as much as possible from actual innovators.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#143

Post by troels »

DanBC wrote: post #137
maeon3 wrote: post #10

Would it also then become illegal to program software that would defend against such software rooting your machine and erasing things that goes against its views of fairness? I'd like see them try to root my Gentoo box.

Remember when you couldn't watch DVDs on Linux? And then someone wrote DeCSS, which provided decryption of DVD for Linux users. It'll be similar if this law passes. There's a binary blob for Windows and OSX. It's illegal to reverse engineer that blob. It's illegal to circumvent the need for that blob.

I guess we'll just have to use a VM then. They can "root" that all they want.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#144

Post by venomsnake »

JanneVee wrote: post #140
venomsnake wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way ... MS can buy Hollywood with pocket change. Also the moment they sign something like that - no more business with enterprises and national governments. The integrity of windows and office is imperative for them.

Last time I checked MS was still in business. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sony_BMG_copy_prot...

This was done without MS active involvement. Microsoft signing a piece of code in wild that can subvert their own secure boot ... is something else entirely.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#145

Post by krichman »

sliverstorm wrote: post #87
kunai wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your analogy is completely flawed. Automakers aren't putting root exploits in vehicles that allow override by the government when it detects you're going to an "unauthorized" music dealer. And are late 60's cars really that bad? There weren't any of the fallback mechanisms we take for granted, such as airbags, so people drove better. Styling is questionable, but many cars on the road look and drive like bloated, life…

I probably wasn't clear enough, but I wasn't trying to compare cars to rootkits. I agree this rootkit thing is ridiculous. Rather, I was thinking about the general idea that ordinary Joes ought to be as worried about freedom as we are being. Late 60's cars are not horrific or anything like that. But be realistic- the performance, longevity, emissions, driveability, and weight of engines have all come a very very long…

We should absolutely be more worried about digital rights and freedoms, because freedoms with your car are already pretty well secured. You can loan it to a friend, you can sell it, you're allowed to take it apart and mess with it on your own property, you can publish manuals on how to take it apart and mess with it without fear of legal action, the manufacturers aren't going to add a camera to watch your every move, etc.

And there's no equivalent of manufacturers selling a car such that it is impossible for you to swap out parts unless Microsoft has signed them.

In this increasingly digital world, many people are going to be totally beholden to Microsoft, Apple, et al in terms of what software they are allowed to install on their devices. In certain cases they are already constrained by the ideology of one provider. This should frighten you. And it's even more frightening that we can already legally prevent people from altering the software on their own device to make it behave as they wish.

In sum, your car is never going to refuse to take you to an adult bookstore, that's why it is different.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#146

Post by Vivtek »

shmerl wrote: post #110
beloch wrote: post #99

What qualities do people look for when buying movies and music? 1. The content they want. 2. Quality (i.e. resolution, bitrate, etc.) 3. Reliability (it actually plays) 4. Low annoyance (no ads, warnings, etc.) 5. Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.) The movie and music industries haven't done a perfect job of delivering #1-4. Region coding means the content users want is frequently only available through p…

#5 Safety (guaranteed freedom from malware, etc.)... was the one thing that legally purchased media had an undeniable edge in over pirated media. Disagreed. Sony rootkit was on the legally purchased media. DRM on streaming services can do all kind of stuff without users consent. DRM built into hardware with cameras can do even weirder stuff (just note the crazy DRM idea patented by Microsoft regarding detecting the p…

Yeah, but it's relatively restricted right now, to the point that the vast majority of consumers have no idea it exists. If this is enshrined in law as a bona fide policy, it will become much more widespread - perhaps to the point that Joe Public notices.

So this is different - in degree if not in kind.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#147

Post by vetinari »

tnuc wrote: post #48

It is perfectly legal for the entertainment industry to deploy rootkits. What you decide to put on your computer is up to you. If someone wants to put something in the software, the agreement is between you and them. So long as they disclose what they are doing, it's not like anyone reads the those agreement contracts on the internet. A company that deploys rootkits, then survives class actions and angry consumers? N…

AFAIK, Sony is still there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#148

Post by JanneVee »

venomsnake wrote: post #144
JanneVee wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked MS was still in business. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sony_BMG_copy_prot...

This was done without MS active involvement. Microsoft signing a piece of code in wild that can subvert their own secure boot ... is something else entirely.

The point is that any company can sign a rootkit (for the price of $99) to run on windows machines with our without SecureBoot. The best MS can do is to revoke certificates of rogue companies but by then the damage could be done.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#149

Post by likeclockwork »

lightknight wrote: post #122
vidarh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I ever find a rootkit on my system stemming from a company that thinks they can do stuff like this, and it is legal, it is to a demonstration that the law is not worthy of any respect any more, and that it is time for war. And given the resource discrepancy, the only way of fighting back against companies like this would be to cause vastly disproportionate amounts of damage. I'm sure getting rootkits into their ne…

If I ever find a rootkit on my system, that OS gets binned permanently, no questions asked. I have a zero tolerance policy for who's system my computer is: it's mine. Not the US's, not Law Enforcement's, not the MPAA's, not MS's. If it achieves sentience, fine, it can be it's own; until then, any OS which fails to understand this arrangement (that a secure OS means that only I and system services (Windows Update, var…

This is a big part of the reason I moved entirely over to Linux and don't even have a token windows box anymore. When I absolutely need to run a windows app (Photoshop, or some MS Office crap that doesn't render properly in LibreOffice) I run (licensed) Windows 7 in a VM, where it is contained and constrained.

All the windows only applications I used to use for fun and hobbies (games, music apps) I've either found Linux replacements for (I basically buy the Humble Bundle whenever it looks good), or I simply do without. I would buy Linux applications for these functions if they were available AND the applications were sane, cross-platform developers sometimes try to treat your Linux box like its an MS box (wanting to put files all over the place etc) which is unacceptable.

We simply cannot trust MS or Apple. At least in the Linux community there is a strong culture of transparency, privacy, security, and freedom.

Re: US entertainment industry to Congress: make it legal for us to deploy rootkits

#150

Post by daniel-cussen »

ck2 wrote: post #131

Why should the entertainment industry get special treatment? Local, state, federal police, IRS should install rootkits to monitor all transactions and activity, turn on audio and video capture from webcams. Of course it's absurd and would destroy consumer trust of any device connected to the internet.

This is why I'm really hesitant about the Internet of Things. Can you imagine if some hacker got ahold of my toaster? He could burn my toast!
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