Live data from Hacker News

Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

theglobeandmail.com

31–40 of 55 posts

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#31
post #23
post #2

Considering the outrageous prices charged by motels in every city I've been (up to Chicoutimi) and even by road side motels near nowhere, I'm not surprised :-/ >Business groups like Montreal’s Bed and Breakfast Association have been pushing for the government to crackdown on home rentals for years. Yeah. I sure wonder why.

There are regulatory mechanisms to make hotels and B+Bs pay their share of externalities. These are things like property tax, room tax, and insurance. Suppliers of airbnb units avoid a lot of these payments because they're paying taxes at normal residential rates. If the cost of a room is $100/night, and the cost of that extra stuff is $50/night, then there is no way that hotels can compete on an even playing field w…

[deleted]

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#32
post #17
post #14

I may be downvoted to oblivion for this but I really don't think my neighbors in Boston would like it if I rented my room out on a nightly basis to people they don't know. There are 20 units in my building so seeing many random people coming and going would trigger great unease and I cannot say that I would blame them for that. I've used AirBnB and I love it but I think the biggest issue is not the commercial propert…

To play devil's advocate to this argument, what's the difference between having new tenants entering the building every week and a resident having random friends over every week?

The rent controlled tenants below me pay about $800 for a unit that now rents for $3200 a month. Last year when they bought a home they decided to keep the apartment to use as a pied-à-terre and rent it out on Airbnb.

I found out about this after having three different people in a weeks time knock on my door and ask me where the fuse boxes are. Not a huge deal if my neighbors do it, but these are total strangers. At least when someone moves in to my building they have multiple background checks. And since full time residents live here they have a reason to be polite as they see me daily. They have some connection to the building and its residents.

A few weeks after the start of this I was woken up at three A.M. by my dog barking at the fire escape. There was someone on the fire escape looking into my bedroom window! After calling the police I found out that it was a renter from the unit below who wanted a better view and decided to peek into my unit at the same time. This has happened half a dozen times in the last year.

I work typical business hours. People who stay in the unit as guests are generally on vacation and this can lead to loud parties that last all hours of the night. I have a few neighbors who work strange hours and we work out noise agreements, you can't do that with people who are staying one or two days.

There's also the moral issue. It's hard to find a place in San Francisco, what they are doing is illegal, against the terms of their lease (it's very hard to evict tenants in San Francisco, the owners are trying), and they are denying someone a full time residence so they can make extra cash.

I like the idea of Airbnb but I agree that the people who rent units need to be held to some standards. A permit that neighbors can contest seems reasonable if it's going to affect their standard of living.

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#33
As a side note, there is no way in hell hotel prices in Quebec reflect their fair market value. Hotels are about the same price in Chicoutimi where land is vastly abundant as they are in Hong Kong, a tiny overcrowded island. My gut guess is that real estate prices are at least 10x higher in Hong Kong too. It's very hard to find an apartment below 1000$/month in Hong Kong whereas in Chicoutimi you can find one for 2-3x the price of a night at the hotel. Makes no sense at all even after considering the cheap imported workers hotels in Hong Kong have access too and other economies of scale associated with a densely populated area... Disclosure: I was born in Quebec and have lived in Hong Kong.

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#34
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing that you got downvoted for this. The comments in this thread which are cheerleading "disruption" are completely glossing over the issues of taxes and regulations. Other startups are out there making good faith attempts at following the law and competing fairly. Why does HN seem so eager to collectively give AirBnB a free pass?

These new services simply make the regulation and taxation issues more and more obvious. You can't stop technology, you can't stop innovation. Once you acknowledge that, you realize that laws have to adapt to new realities.

Um, why exactly can't Airbnb help its hosts abide by the laws?

It's a $250 tax. It does not exactly seem onerous to have them provide a reminder and a simple 1, 2, 3... list of how to make sure that they are legal in the area they are hosting in. Maybe even a way to pay directly as part of signing up.

In this instance, it's really not the law that needs to adapt to reality, it's airbnb.

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, it's about a company choosing to ignore the law. Craigslist did the same thing for years with respect to advertising for "erotic services". If the company's strategy for this issue is to declare that "users must be aware of local regulation" while providing thousands of listings in heavily regulated cities like New York City, they're probably going to hit some speedbumps.

Do you seriously think it's the responsibility of the service provider to make sure its users don't engage in any potentially illegal activities? These services are simply glorified communication tools, and limiting what people can communicate with them is limiting free speech.

>Do you seriously think it's the responsibility of the service provider to make sure its users don't engage in any potentially illegal activities?

If the illegal activity is "using their system as it was intended" then they have a degree of responsibility, yes.

They should at the very least provide a warning to users in quebec that they need to pay the $250 or they will be in violation of the law by using the airbnb website.

This does not seem like a particularly onerous thing to implement (10 lines of code?), either, and any judge reviewing a case against them would likely bear this in mind.

If they were small and did not have many hosts in quebec I doubt it would be an issue. They are clearly not any more, however.

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#36
post #24
post #7

You shouldn't blame the Government for enforcing its laws. I would like for competition to be more open than it is, but I pay my taxes and would like others to do so too.

Amazing that you got downvoted for this. The comments in this thread which are cheerleading "disruption" are completely glossing over the issues of taxes and regulations. Other startups are out there making good faith attempts at following the law and competing fairly. Why does HN seem so eager to collectively give AirBnB a free pass?

> Why does HN seem so eager to collectively give AirBnB a free pass?

It may have something to do with AirBnB being one of the two top YC backed companies (the other is dropbox).

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#37

AirBnB may be the canary in the coalmine for tech, maybe more than the privacy issues surrounding the majority of the current tech business models. The industry idolizes "disruption" without taking any responsibility for the negative side-effects. However, in the case of AirBnB, these side-effects don't just affect an incumbent industry, but the private lives of completely innocent ordinary people, who live in the sa…

> Not all disruption is good.

Tor is very disruptive. On one hand it's allowing for political dissidents to speak and access the internet freely. On the other it's used by criminals and child pornographers.

Even if it causes a certain level of harm, as long as there is legitimate benefit, attempting to force everyone to go back to how things were before the technology existed is ultimately futile and unproductive. Just like copyright (bad for record labels) and automated factories (bad for unskilled workers/unions). Or even Walmart (bad for small shops) and drugs (bad for economic productivity).

We should learn to attempt to adapt our laws/policies to the new technology instead of trying to ban it (which is currently the default reaction).

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#39
post #32
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate to this argument, what's the difference between having new tenants entering the building every week and a resident having random friends over every week?

The rent controlled tenants below me pay about $800 for a unit that now rents for $3200 a month. Last year when they bought a home they decided to keep the apartment to use as a pied-à-terre and rent it out on Airbnb. I found out about this after having three different people in a weeks time knock on my door and ask me where the fuse boxes are. Not a huge deal if my neighbors do it, but these are total strangers. At…

there are already laws for such disturbances. as for airbnb already being illegal in some places, I wonder why those laws exist in the first place.

Re: Quebec Cracks Down on Airbnb

#40
There will start to be issues and price hikes when accidents happen and the insurance companies start taking notice of this: your home insurance price gets mutliplied by two if you want it to cover short renting...

I see that as a non-legal positive and useful self-regulation of the market.

And then you will get adverts 'this AirBnB rental is insured', etc.

I do not see this solution as bad at all.

And I guess it is related to the hotel and B&B owners' complaints.

Post reply on HN