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Getting a job in San Francisco

blog.penso.info

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Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#81

Post by pandaman »

cxx wrote: post #28
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK salaries are rather low there, but cost of living is quite expensive.

That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.

Thanks, now I understand why UK/EU recruiters are soliciting 60-80K euros positions to me all the time. They probably think the salary is so good I am going to drop everything and move over there.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#82

Post by vorador »

natrius wrote: post #72
fabienpenso wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say that in Paris, a referral is necessary and often sufficient. Le "piston". +1. I think it's a core deep cultural issue about France. The whole system is completely corrupted, people are used to get "passe-droit" (not sure about the translation) for anything, and even the top Political leaders are acting this way. Politician asking cops not to be fined for something illegal they just did, a friend of a friend…

I think the English word you're looking for is "nepotism."

"Passe-droit" means "special favor" in french.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#83

Post by Gepsens »

cxx wrote: post #28
zerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK salaries are rather low there, but cost of living is quite expensive.

That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.

This. I'm paid almost 50k in Paris, leaving this year to the US to find a job.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#84

Post by Gepsens »

thibaut_barrere wrote: post #57
Gepsens wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can work remomtely, sure. Because those interesting projects will certainly not be in Paris.

I've been working remotely for the last 3 years, working 100% on interesting, Paris-based projects. Just adding a data point!

You are one of the lucky few then, I'd be interested to hear what those Paris-based projects are as well. Are they paying you more than 40k too ?

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#85

Post by sliverstorm »

throwaway011001 wrote: post #34
rm999 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>cares about your look more than your technical expertise. In all fairness that's not what he said. Some companies - like google - have a very objective hiring process based almost entirely on technical skill. But many other companies include "fit" as a part of the hiring decision. I haven't interviewed at twitter but I could believe they are like that. I've thumbed down candidates who did well on the technical part…

Has the tech sector really come to the point where coders/geeks can't even be socially awkward anymore? I thought coding was one profession where socially awkward geeks could make an honest living.

So long as you can be socially awkward together, you're probably golden.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#86

Post by byroot »

hnriot wrote: post #71
fabienpenso wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there is a huge difference. As a Software Engineer you want to work in San Francisco because it's where your job happens. In Paris, nothing happens on that level. If you do want to come to Paris it's because of the amazing food, lifestyle, public transportation system, and certainly not because of the amazing startups we should have.

Not to mention working in Paris is like working part time here. 35 hour weeks!!! Mandated by law too. Of course this might also be why there isn't a vibrant startup culture.

Companies can easily workaround the 35 hours week with the "cadre" status that basically nullify the regulated hours constraint, and they do.

I don't know any developer in Paris that do a 35 hours week. Actually it's even the contrary, French managers have a strong culture of evaluating employees performance based on presence. So you see a lot of peoples doing 10-12 hours a day, or coming back to the office on saturday.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#87

Post by WalterBright »

CoachRufus87 wrote: post #7
guylhem wrote: post #3

>When rejecting candidates for my own company I wanted to tell them why I rejected them, and how to improve, but I have been told not to do it, for legal reason. When the laws prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, you know it has gone too far. The government should have no business in your selection or rejection of new hires, and the firing of them if needed. >I believe the US way…

The government doesn't prevent you from giving actionable feedback to the person you didn't hire, it just gives the person you didn't hire the ability to sue you should you not hire them based on some criteria (race, sex, religion, or whatever their lawyer can argue).

It's kinda the same reason that companies don't apologize for wrongdoing. Apologizing is admitting fault, and then they automatically lose the lawsuit.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#88

Post by enqk »

fabienpenso wrote: post #33
cxx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.

The difference is, Europe see developers as commodities. They don't care, they don't need them as much as they do in San Francisco. San Francisco see developers as the only way to achieve their project they just raised 10 millions for. You're gold to them, they accept to pay a higher price. In Europe most young developers want to be Product Manager (or any Manager positions), most developers in SF don't care about th…

What's important is not to stop at comparing salaries. Compare total costs of living. Healthcare, housing, commuting, taxes, insurance. Compare (real) options for work or education or you and your family.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#89

Post by cxx »

ownagefool wrote: post #76
cxx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to say, every country has its own market gotchas. Those 50k something devs are almost always working in salaried positions. I can count in one hand the number of technical freelancers I've ever seen or heard about but I also have never actively searched for one. On the other hand there are a lot of companies that act as middlemen between contractors and companies. These contractors are employed and paid by the m…

Those middle men are just recruitment agencies, generally. As a standard they don't have guys on staff and will take somewhere between 15%-30% on top. The 5x as much usually have full time employees and are something different, though it does happen. For the contractor, contracting via a respected agency means you're almost guaranteed to be paid. However, they don't really offer much value beyond that. I personally d…

Yes, I wasn't talking about recruitment agencies, I was talking about the ones with full time staff.

Re: Getting a job in San Francisco

#90

Post by cxx »

pandaman wrote: post #81
cxx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not only in France, it's in all Europe. Salaries in Germany, The Netherlands, UK and so on are much much lower than in SF or NY. Developer jobs that pay more than 60k euro are few and far between. A 50k+ job is already above average and upgrading is not going to be easy.

Thanks, now I understand why UK/EU recruiters are soliciting 60-80K euros positions to me all the time. They probably think the salary is so good I am going to drop everything and move over there.

Pretty much, 80k for a dev position in the EU is very rare (except in London/finance).
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