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The Fallacy of Money As A Means

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121–129 of 129 posts

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#121
I feel like a lot of people commenting here are correctly identifying that being dirt poor sucks. But they are then confusing this with a general linear (or near linear) relationship between money and happiness.

If you are doing a regular skilled job in a Western country I would argue you will have enough money to pursue happiness/not be overly blocked by lack of wealth.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#122
post #98
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

This, so much this. My outlook on life is unimaginably different now that I have a few thousand euro lying around my bank account than it was right after I burned my last startup and I was forced to borrow shampoo. Money == freedom.

I think your experience is probably better expressed as:

Poverty != Freedom

(Or rather, being dirt poor can get in the way of the good life.)

Most people in Western countries are not forced to borrow shampoo. If you are scraping around for basic needs than obviously your life choices are limited, but you don't need loads of money to move beyond this point.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#123
post #116
post #96

Money is not about peer acceptance, power, or "having nice things". Money is freedom. This only dawned on me when I had absolutely nothing. Without money, you can't really do anything, all your choices have been taken from you. As you start accumulating money, more and more doors open up, and you are increasingly free to do what you like. Money is, almost by definition, the abstraction of means. There's probably an u…

"Money is freedom". I think we can all more or less agree with this. But what I don't hear very often is: "Should it be?" I think it is very obvious that no, it shouldn't. Implicit in the statement that money == freedom is !money == !freedom. Without money you are not free. I want to be very clear here: This. Is. Wrong. Do I have a solution? No. Not a palatable one. But I urge you to at least think about it. There ar…

I don't agree that money == freedom. I think there is only a connection if you make it for yourself. There are many very rich people trapped in lives they don't want. There are many poor people who feel very free.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#124

I once asked people to choose between 1) Making a contribution to society as profound as Isaac Newton's, but leading such a harried life that they died before the age of 50 from a stress-related illness 2) Leading a content, good, happy, and unremarkable life Everyone in the Valley chooses (1)

You didn't really ask them to make a choice, though. You gave them an opportunity to signal courage and self-sacrifice and probably some other things.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? So you're suggesting setting the bar low for your inner-self just so you can avoid intimidating partners of a lower standard? That makes no sense to me. If I were single (which I'm not, because I have a satisfying relationship built on mutual admiration), I would want people of low aspirations to self-select themselves out of my dating pool.

Why? People with "low aspirations" are not necessarily bad people, nor unsuitable mates. Everyone needs something different in their lives. All I'm saying is that "self-improvement for the sake of dating" is terrible advice. Most people want to go on dates with people who are attractive, and self-improvement is often an anti-pattern for that. Yes, we'd like to think that everyone has real standards (versus superficia…

We'll just have to agree to disagree. People with low aspirations aren't bad. I just don't view them as particularly strong candidates for dating, or even close friendship, for that matter.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#126
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with money can do it if they want to. Other people have to try real hard. Want to have a nightclub lifestyle - become a bouncer/dancer. Want to live on private yatch - get a job on a somebody else's yatch(and imagine you are living your dream). Want to change the world - become a scientist and hope you get work on your topic of interest( or make the work that you get your topic of interest).

> Other people have to try real hard. Want to have a nightclub lifestyle - become a bouncer/dancer. That's not the same "nightclub lifestyle" as a nightclub patron.

You are right. But are the scientist and the philanthropist living the same lifestyle?

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#127
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, so much this. My outlook on life is unimaginably different now that I have a few thousand euro lying around my bank account than it was right after I burned my last startup and I was forced to borrow shampoo. Money == freedom.

I think your experience is probably better expressed as: Poverty != Freedom (Or rather, being dirt poor can get in the way of the good life.) Most people in Western countries are not forced to borrow shampoo. If you are scraping around for basic needs than obviously your life choices are limited, but you don't need loads of money to move beyond this point.

A few thousand euro is not loads of money. It's enough to, say, live for two or three months without income.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#128
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the startup have something to do with getting your kids a great education?

The prospect of a good exit, or a successful company which would basically allow you to be "set for life" would do this. Being able to select freely where to live, what schools to go to, and what colleges to have as options will greatly affect the education prospects of your children.

So then, a good exit is the means by which you want good prospects for your children. If that so, wouldn't it make sense to have several different other methods to achieve that end?

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#129

When I worked on Wall Street, it was common to have a "number" in mind -- a level of wealth one wanted to earn, after which one would retire. By way of contrast, I got out after I'd only worked there about 5 years, with enough savings to support me for only a few more. Frankly, I wish I'd stuck with it and solved the "earning money" problem for life for once and for all. I.e., while I'm generally in agreement with th…

(throwaway account) I have been working for 10 years as a software developer and manager of software development teams for a large investment bank. When I got started, and for the first 5 years or so, I thought that I could earn enough to save up and "solve the 'earning money' problem" doing this. Now, I don't think that's possible on this track. I thought I'd get there in the beginning because I was doing very well…

I was a stock analyst in the 1980s. Indeed, I was the #1-ranked software stock analyst. So for me, it was a very real discussion.
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