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I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

motherjones.com

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Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#191

Post by ctdonath »

lifeguard wrote: post #169
lifeguard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Do more more research.

31k gun deaths in 2010 http://webappa.cdc.gov/cgi-bin/broker.exe On average, 33 gun homicides were committed each day for the years 2005-2010 -- WISQARS Injury Mortality Reports, 1999-2010

Operative word: "accidental".

Deliberate murders involving guns outnumber accidental killings some 36 to 1.

Note however that accidental automotive killings outnumber deliberate willful homicides using firearms. Odd that somehow the former garners little public concern.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#192

Post by hga »

presidentender wrote: post #3

This has been legal for a very long time, and is the cause of approximately no violence. Much as with the discussion of 3d printed firearms, it's not so much that the behaviors of gun owners and gun builders has changed as it is that the prevailing discourse in the political arena and the news is different. The author refrains from espousing an opinion in the piece, but only just, and frankly I disagree with him. The…

Although apparantly not legal in California; I haven't looked at this Mother Jones stuff, but I can confirm the first two are illegal in that state (e.g. why the Hello Kitty AR-15 has such a wierd stock, and look up bullet button for #2; http://disqus.com/facebook-1392090219/):

"Do you know how many felonies you just committed? Just because you are a reporter doesn't make you immune to these multiple CA felonies:

1) Owning a semi-automatic w/ a pistol grip

2) At 1:20 you can clearly see that the magazine lock is mounted too far back, allowing the magazine to be detached without the use of a tool.

3) You perform an improper disposal of the gun and leave it for the garbage collector. By CA law, that's an illegal transfer since he didn't go through an FFL.

I hope you get shafted by those strict laws you support, idiot."

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#193

Post by hga »

maxerickson wrote: post #184
cstross wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As over 90% of road traffic accidents are the result of human error, I strongly disagree with your conclusion -- otherwise we wouldn't need third-party insurance for cars, either. (On the other hand, if you're as sensible as you say, I have three words for you: no claims discount .)

The NRA apparently endorses a personal liability insurance: http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/excess.htm Quick searching is not instructive as to pricing, but I guess some homeowners policies cover gun accidents, and such insurance is not particularly expensive.

Indeed, and you can tell from the costs what the insurance companies think are the serious risks (hint, not liability).

I'll just mention ratios, that I'm a USAA customer who's father was in the military (eyesight kept me out, but they have a special category for us because we're better risks), that I don't have very many guns, have a monitored alarm, and no longer get the no claims discount (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Joplin_tornado).

All that said, I pay 4 times as much for the extra protection needed to cover loss of my guns as I do for the liability insurance that's an enumerated part of my renter's policy, and the single instance liability they're on the hook for is 35 times greater than a total loss of my listed guns and scopes.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#194

Post by hga »

kstenerud wrote: post #183
lifeguard wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Do more more research.

In 2011 there were 851 deaths due to accidental firearm discharge, 19766 firearm suicides, and 11101 homicides by firearm. Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_06.pdf In Milwaukee, 76% of homicide victims had prior arrests/citations, and 90% of suspects had priors. Source: http://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityHRC/report...

WTF???

Note the year before, it was 606, which is where it's been for a while. It wasn't as high as 851 in the early 80s, when the population was nearly 1/3 lower as well as the number of guns owned.

Something is wrong with one of these two statistics. Besides the discontinuity, I seriously doubt we in the gun community wouldn't have noticed a 30% increase in the number of accidental gun fatalities.

Note, I'm not saying this preliminary 2011 number is wrong, just that I suspect something other than the real rate of accidents changed. Hmmm, there's not even any external event that would account for a 2010 to 2011 increase (i.e. the major spikes in purchasing were after Obama was first elected and after Newtown, things were back to something like "normal" in 2011 although sales just kept going up and up year to year each month).

ADDED: As those major increases in population and guns owned occurred, we worked really hard to get the accident rate down. Mandatory hunter safety courses, a general emphasis on safety in the now larger self-defense area, etc. etc. etc. The rate is still down due to the population increase, but....

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#195

Post by ianstallings »

glurgh wrote: post #159
ianstallings wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty of liberty is I don't care what you think about me exercising it. That's kind of the point I was trying to make. That whole "give me liberty or give me death" thing really means something to some of us and we really don't care what others think. They have a name for us actually - Americans.

No, those are caricature Americans. No thinking Americans, starting with the founders, made it a point of pride of ignoring what other people think. They may have arrived at different conclusions but the notion they did so because liberty is some function of willful ignorance is idiotic.

Ah yes, ad hominem attacks. Thanks! I look forward to more intelligent discussions with you sir.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#196

Post by starnixgod »

minamea wrote: post #108
unimpressive wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You thought I was talking about guns there? Oh no, that was general life advice, for your safety. The idea that you can go around getting people so angry that they want to kill you more than a few times without ill effect is silly.

The idea that someone can kill me because I got them angry is sillier. There are the police and courts and the like.

>There are the police and courts and the like.

Constructing an argument that leans on the courts and police to protect you is entirely specious.

Contrary to the mantra that is often plastered on the side of every patrol car, the police have no duty whatsoever to protect you. And likewise, the courts or police cannot nor will not protect you from threat even if that threat is imminent and certain[1]. The only duty of our justice system is to investigate and apprehend criminals, not to protect your person or property[2][3].

1. Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)

2. DeShaney v. Winnebago Cnty. Dep’t of Soc. Servs., 489 U.S. 189 (1989)

3. Leidy v. Borough of Glenolden, et al., 277 F. Supp. 2d 547, 561 (E.D. Pa. 2003)

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#197

Post by mikeash »

hga wrote: post #162
mikeash wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe in funding studies that can give us an answer to that very problem. Sadly, the gun lobby does not believe in funding such studies. That fact alone is extremely suggestive.

No, we don't believe in funding studies by people who believe that guns are/should be "dirty, deadly and banned" ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-cen... ). If you're neutral on the subject, you shouldn't want junk science to be funded.

A rational approach would be to find less biased ways of carrying out the research, not simply banning it.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#198

Post by mikeash »

Cushman wrote: post #143
mikeash wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I passed that over because I couldn't see the point to your hypothetical. No, I don't see how such an article would be at all "disingenuous". What is the hypothetical supposed to illustrate? I imagine a "kit-built cars are perfectly legal to build at home with no oversight" article would be interesting to read too.

But you wouldn't consider it to have any relevance to the broader cultural problem of traffic fatalities and vehicle registration? Or you don't think others would? Or you think that any misleading effect is regrettable, but not a reason to alter the tone of the article?

Relevance? Of course it would have relevance, as any facts on the subject would. What misleading effect are you referring to?

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#199

Post by mikeash »

Tuna-Fish wrote: post #132
mikeash wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had no clue that it was legal to build an AK-47 from a kit. I doubt I'm alone.

Technically, the part of it that's legally considered a weapon, the receiver, is not built from a kit, it's built from scratch. If the rest of the parts were not legal to purchase, they could be built from scratch too. A skilled craftsman can make an entire AK-47 replica in ~one day. An unskilled one following plans on the internet working from what's procurable from any hardware store and using cheap tools from the…

I know that making guns is not hard. It's not all that interesting that people are able to build guns themselves. After all, it's ancient technology, and people build far more complicated machines at home.

What's interesting to me is not that a gun can be built by an individual, but that this particular kind of gun can be built legally by an individual in the US without informing anyone.

People build their own airplanes, for example, but at the end of the day they have to get them inspected and registered before they can legally fly them. That one can build an AK-47 without any such controls, and still be completely within the law, is interesting.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#200

Post by hga »

mikeash wrote: post #197
hga wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't believe in funding studies by people who believe that guns are/should be "dirty, deadly and banned" ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybell/2013/02/12/why-the-cen... ). If you're neutral on the subject, you shouldn't want junk science to be funded.

A rational approach would be to find less biased ways of carrying out the research, not simply banning it.

Less biased means not just a different institution, but a different culture, the "public health" culture appears to be totally biased and has published a string of self-refuting junk science papers in the most prestigious journals like the NEJM and JAMA.

Who do you suggest?

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