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I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

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Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#131

Post by glurgh »

ianstallings wrote: post #109
glurgh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the prevailing discourse in the political arena and the news is different. The prevailing argument of gun advocates, at least in the US, is that "it's not our guns. it's those other, bad people's guns". It would probably help their case if they stopped arguing that owning a potentially deadly piece of gear is some universal human right not subject to regulation like, say, owning a car. Most car owners cause approxima…

Some of us believe that we shouldn't need to convince you of anything. There is no such thing as "pre-crime". I have the liberty to do as I please as a human being on this planet so long as it doesn't hurt you. Simply claiming that I might hurt you or someone else might hurt you with a rifle is dubious logic at best.

I have the liberty to do as I please as a human being on this planet so long as it doesn't hurt you.

No, you don't. There is such a thing as exposure to risk. Otherwise anyone would have the liberty to build a toxic waste processing plant by your back yard because, hey, that's not hurting you. Yet.

Strangely, this is not the established way of things in any actually functional society.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#132

Post by Tuna-Fish »

mikeash wrote: post #51
Cushman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you have preferred to see this reported? What "this"? That somebody built a rifle from a kit is not exactly newsworthy.

I had no clue that it was legal to build an AK-47 from a kit. I doubt I'm alone.

Technically, the part of it that's legally considered a weapon, the receiver, is not built from a kit, it's built from scratch.

If the rest of the parts were not legal to purchase, they could be built from scratch too. A skilled craftsman can make an entire AK-47 replica in ~one day. An unskilled one following plans on the internet working from what's procurable from any hardware store and using cheap tools from the same source can make (a much shoddier one) in a few weeks.

Making guns is not hard. They are, in their basics, very simple pieces of gear, and can be built from the same materials with same tools as any other metalworking project.

In conflict zones where gun imports are successfully blocked, the locals invariably build their own. These weapons range from AK-47 replicas to zip guns [1] that make 15 minutes to make. I'd argue that for crime, the zip gun is the more practical one.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Va87gB_4AI

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#133

Post by ianstallings »

mikeash wrote: post #124
ianstallings wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like Thomas Jefferson? Yeah, he was pretty uppity.

Jefferson was gleeful at the thought of armed revolution? Do tell.

Okay, a quote from him:

The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, & what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusetts? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it's motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The past which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive; if they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13 states independent 11 years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is its natural manure.

Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to William S. Smith (13 November 1787).

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#134

Post by angersock »

Cushman wrote: post #123
angersock wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics from 2008-2009: http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publicat... Basically, ...and the estimated total child population: http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp Around 74 million at that time. So, this is whitenoise from population standpoint; .004% of the population of kids. I'm not going to suggest giving up access to pistols for the nation because of statistical outlier…

I was using "children" rhetorically here, including gang violence and adult suicides basically. Anyway, this isn't the place for the conversation.

Fair enough--my general instinct is just to start bringing up stats when something this emotionally-charged comes up. Carry on. :)

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#135

Post by mikeash »

Cushman wrote: post #127
mikeash wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you proposing that "news" should only count if it's something that a person who already follows the field closely wouldn't know? Is "news" only current events, and not reporting on old facts that are not well known?

My thoughts on this article are roughly equivalent to my thoughts on my hypothetical Vanity Fair piece, which I think I made clear. Since your questions don't seem to relate to that hypothetical, I don't have much to add.

I guess I passed that over because I couldn't see the point to your hypothetical. No, I don't see how such an article would be at all "disingenuous". What is the hypothetical supposed to illustrate? I imagine a "kit-built cars are perfectly legal to build at home with no oversight" article would be interesting to read too.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#136

Post by oijaf888 »

pragone wrote: post #43

One more reason why guns laws won't do anything without more information on what exactly they hope to achieve by passing them. I personally enjoy living in a city that bans knives and guns. I find it comforting to know that it's not likely for someone I pass to have a gun. I also can't go a single day without passing a dozen cops. However, there is plenty of data telling us there isn't enough data to make arguments o…

If you live in NYC only blades greater than 4" are banned in public places unless being transported for a legal purpose. Otherwise all knives seem to be legal to possess.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#137

Post by minamea »

angersock wrote: post #122
minamea wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, aside from the obvious reason? Someone in the military follows orders and serves the nation while someone with a gun will probably do whatever he/she feels with it and nothing actually useful. How is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_Shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_v._City_of_Oakland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton#Assassination_by_C... And for you fans of enterprise solutions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_firebombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_hiroshima http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising ~ Your mora…

Heh, so out of the millions of policemen and militants in the world, that protect the billions out there, you found a handful that have gone bad. Sure, let's let anyone kill anyone then! Moral reasoning!

Heh, I'm you advice, kid.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#138

Post by oijaf888 »

ricardobeat wrote: post #17

Thankfully this is illegal and will remain so in most of the rest of the world. 3% means there are more than 9.4 million assault rifles in US homes. Are they expecting an invasion?

It is? I'm surprised that the rest of the world has such developed gun policy. I understand the majority of first world nations would probably ban this but its interesting to learn that 3rd world countries have developed similar laws.

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#139

Post by maxerickson »

MChristopherson wrote: post #93
maxerickson wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gun with a limited internal magazine is materially different than a clip ready design though. In the U.S., the legal use of assault rifle has not been particularly confused (it's always meant guns with automatic fire capability), just the sloppy and/or misconstrued use of the term in media and advocacy. Edit: Second paragraph is wrong, see link down thread.

Hunting rifles with magazines are quite common. However, you do zero in on the effective difference between supposed "assault rifles" and semi-automatic hunting rifles: the magazine / number of rounds available. I think this is an important point, because when you cut through the furor, that really is the only effective distinction. And it's a heck of a lot more minor a distinction than the more common blending of "f…

I guess it depends on whether a person thinks that the political process around gun control will result from rhetoric or from honest debate. If it's an honest debate, the exact words used to describe the eventual line that gets drawn shouldn't really matter. A semi automatic rifle with a few 10 round magazines is plenty scary enough when used for violence.

Also, when I looked up the number for post ban magazines, I realized that I was wrong about assault weapons and full automatic. Wikipedia has a summary of the federal ban:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban#Cri...

Re: I Built This AK-47. It's Legal and Totally Untraceable

#140

Post by angersock »

minamea wrote: post #137
angersock wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_Shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell_v._City_of_Oakland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hampton#Assassination_by_C... And for you fans of enterprise solutions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_firebombing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_hiroshima http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto_Uprising ~ Your mora…

Heh, so out of the millions of policemen and militants in the world, that protect the billions out there, you found a handful that have gone bad. Sure, let's let anyone kill anyone then! Moral reasoning! Heh, I'm you advice, kid.

"...you found a handful that have gone bad."

You do realize that your point there is exactly the same that most gun-control opponents make? If we are to accept your point, you need to accept theirs.

What do you work on, out of curiosity? Maybe it's something you're actually qualified to give me advice on--I'm always up for learning. :)

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