Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Fallacy of Money As A Means

life-longlearner.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 129 posts

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#81

Post by babesh »

chadgeidel wrote: post #75
cgag wrote: post #23

To buy my freedom.

Seriously. It's amazing to me that this idea doesn't enter folks' minds. I would love to do my current job for 50% of the pay and work 6 months out of the year and take 6 months vacation (yes, I know the numbers would be a little different). This is not an option. You either do temp work/contracting work (a giant PITA IMHO) or you "man up" and work 40-50 hour weeks with 2 weeks of vacation.

Its because of the competition. For instance, if you do that, you have half the pay and if you want to buy a house (limited supply in Silicon Valley) then people with a full income will outcompete you for the same house. That's also what is driving up the housing prices.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#82

Post by calinet6 »

CodeMage wrote: post #74
calinet6 wrote: post #4

This is a generally short-sighted article, that looks inward but not at the bigger picture. I want to make a lot of money because I want to start a family, and I want them to have the best life and the best opportunities available. Not to be spoiled, but simply to have a good life. And that's just the start. I want to make money so I can help people. To be able to invest in things which might cure diseases, solve hun…

You've got a lot of good points there, but I think the worst problem with the article is that it oversimplifies everything. It's fundamentally wrong about a whole lot of things. For example, it assumes that there's only one reason for wanting a lot of money. What if I want a "total autonomy over my time" and "nice things", at the same time? As @dragonwriter said elsewhere in this thread, money is one of the means of…

Excellent summary. Yep, I agree completely, and that's a very good way of abstracting the issue.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#83

Post by droopyEyelids »

calinet6 wrote: post #4

This is a generally short-sighted article, that looks inward but not at the bigger picture. I want to make a lot of money because I want to start a family, and I want them to have the best life and the best opportunities available. Not to be spoiled, but simply to have a good life. And that's just the start. I want to make money so I can help people. To be able to invest in things which might cure diseases, solve hun…

.001% of humanity shares your beliefs. 1 out of 100,000. I think thats accurate.

(For the record I find your take on things noble, and it exceeded what I had considered)

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#84

Post by enraged_camel »

Zelphyr wrote: post #66
thedufer wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotes are fun, but the data suggests over and over again that financially successful parents have more financially successful children.

Your statement erroneously associates financial success with happiness. Provably untrue.

Provably untrue only after a certain point.

It is very difficult to be happy when one is homeless, or is living paycheck to paycheck and has to stress about paying bills on time.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#85

Post by ramchip »

jacoblyles wrote: post #32

I once asked people to choose between 1) Making a contribution to society as profound as Isaac Newton's, but leading such a harried life that they died before the age of 50 from a stress-related illness 2) Leading a content, good, happy, and unremarkable life Everyone in the Valley chooses (1)

How old were the people you asked? I think this may the important factor.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#86

Post by capex »

calinet6 wrote: post #4

This is a generally short-sighted article, that looks inward but not at the bigger picture. I want to make a lot of money because I want to start a family, and I want them to have the best life and the best opportunities available. Not to be spoiled, but simply to have a good life. And that's just the start. I want to make money so I can help people. To be able to invest in things which might cure diseases, solve hun…

The difference here is, that all your needs can be fulfilled by doing a job. When it comes to dreams, you enter into entrepreneurship. Your day job might be enough to support you, your family, travels and still leave some savings. But dreams, that translate into huge impacts need switching to entrepreneurship.

Now the question remains, what you dream about. Is it just money that you want, that you'll do great deeds with, when you have it? That's a dream you don't want to have. There is a saying for it: The dreamer is one who can look beyond what is immediately around him, family, kids and loved ones.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#87

Post by swampthing »

manmal wrote: post #68
ryguytilidie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to start a family and having a family to support are two different things. I imagine the goal of a ton of people without families is to generate the capital necessary to start a family.

Having started a family a year ago, I wonder what kind of capital is necessary to start a family is? For diapers? Or do people really want to save up for college when they have barely left college themselves? Until age 3, a child doesn't even need a dedicated room, so basically any apt suitable for 2 people will do. Disclaimer: I'm in Austria, maybe it's easier here.

It depends on how much time you want to spend with your family. For example, if both parents want to stay at home to take care of the kids (admittedly rare), it'd take quite a bit of capital for a middle-class or higher lifestyle.

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#88

Post by jcampbell1 »

thedufer wrote: post #56
lsc wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I want to start a family, and I want them to have the best life and the best opportunities available. Not to be spoiled, but simply to have a good life. This... does not always work out how you think it will. I'm the oldest of six. (Divorced/remarried parents, 3 kids each). I'm dramatically more successful than any of my siblings, adjusted for age. According to the tests, I'm not any smarter than them; according to…

Anecdotes are fun, but the data suggests over and over again that financially successful parents have more financially successful children.

The actual data exists but is not that strong. IIRC, it says that 40% of people born in the bottom quintile remain in the bottom quintile, but 60% dont. The same goes for the top quintile.

I am just recalling these numbers from a potentially faulty memory, but if you want to see for yourself, search for "intergenerational economic mobility"

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#89

Post by navyad »

money is a important thing in life which may give you a "good life" but this "good life" is different from person to person like a person like to have a smart-phone and consider it as a part of "good life" whereas another person just wants to have any ordinary phone and consider it as a part of good life. The point is one needs to know what he wanted money for, not he other way round. It has to means, not end of life

Re: The Fallacy of Money As A Means

#90

Post by parasubvert »

manmal wrote: post #68
ryguytilidie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanting to start a family and having a family to support are two different things. I imagine the goal of a ton of people without families is to generate the capital necessary to start a family.

Having started a family a year ago, I wonder what kind of capital is necessary to start a family is? For diapers? Or do people really want to save up for college when they have barely left college themselves? Until age 3, a child doesn't even need a dedicated room, so basically any apt suitable for 2 people will do. Disclaimer: I'm in Austria, maybe it's easier here.

I think it is easier in Austria (my mother was born there). In Vienna, with a reasonable flat and public transportation, you probably don't have a lot of extra costs. I'm not sure what the Austrian parental leave policy is... one year? How much salary do they cover?

Sources of capital expense for US/Canada:

- Parental leave. Most social insurance systems do not pay full salary if you make over a certain amount of money (say, $40,000 annually). If your lifestyle is higher than that, you need to save the excess. In Canada, parental leave is usually up to 1 year. In the USA, it is often 2 to 3 months (though some insurance plans allow for longer).

- If you're both working, daycare can cost $600 to upwards of $1500 monthly, depending on quality & city.

- Depending on the child, if you want to actually sleep at night it helps for the child to have their own room by age 1 to 1.5 or so, which may entail a larger flat or house. Other children are not restless sleepers and can be tolerable in a shared room.

- Otherwise, the usual expenditure, depending on your desired lifestyle and travel needs: car seats ($500+), booster seats ($200+), clothes, toys, diapers, child-proof cupboard door clips, strollers (upwards of $1000 if you're getting a multi-purpose Chariot-type carrier)

So I'd say, a middle class family would often be advised to save at least $10,000 before having a child. An upper class / affluent family that wants some level of dual parental leave, or a nanny, likely $100,000 or more.

There's also the dark side of having a child, and that's the astronomical costs of separation, assuming you want shared custody (or are fighting for primary custody). In the US or Canada, legal costs are usually at least $10,000 to get to a custody agreement and divorce filing, and more likely $20,000 to 50,000 for minor contentions. Major custody battles can cost upwards of $500,000 (each). Legal aid can help, but only if you fall below a certain income threshold. Whereas I've seen couples split with no kids for under $5,000 each.

source: many friends with children, I have a 3 year old, also too many friends with bad divorces

Post reply on HN