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Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

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Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#21
If one abandons the idea that there is a privileged 'now' (what philosophers call the A-theory of time, which is already difficult to make compatible with special relativity) this effect is not weirder than simultaneous entanglement -- admittedly, this is already sufficiently weird.

(Most physicists, and most philosophers, believe that the right theory of time is a B-theory of time: once every event is lain down in a four-dimensional spacetime diagram, there is nothing else to describe; no facts, in particular, about which of these different times is really now, the time at which the whole universe is.)

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#24
post #2

At the risk of being "that guy," a few thoughts popped into my head after reading this article. I couldn't help but reflect on the possibility of us just completely misunderstanding how the universe works. It wouldn't be the first time in history. What if: Our concept of time and matter is wrong, or our idea of quantum physics is interesting and useful, but ultimately wrong. Perhaps I'm just a simpleton but part of m…

At a mathematical level, it's pretty elegant how quantum mechanics works. At the level of the article, not so much.

Once you get the math (and it really kind of clicks all at once), it's not too hard. The problem is that the math has a lot of historical baggage and the ways of translating equations into prose are not the most effective I think.

The whole "uncertainty" thing bothers me. I think there's better ways of expressing this concept to the public.

I am, however, bothered by the fact that QM is not deterministic. Most experiments have ruled out loopholes for a deterministic universe, but it still just weirds me out that randomness is inherent to the measurement of observables.

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#25
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best understanding is that in general, issues related purely to quantum entanglement are entirely unrelated to causality. As noted in the article, even the "spooky action at a distance" that made Einstein so uncomfortable cannot be used to transmit information faster than light. I haven't checked the math, but I assume that the same sort of properties mean that this system couldn't be used to transmit information…

Let me be a little more precise here. What you basically need to know here is that entanglement describes a correlation between measurements , and you cannot know whether that correlation exists until you collect those measurements together. This is the fundamental reason why it does not "transmit information" faster than light in a certain sense. However, that phrasing is misleading because you can use it to do thin…

What makes the quantum players able to beat the limitation of the classical players with multiple trials?

Every time I read an article discussing quantum mechanics, particularly new results in the field, I get more and more of the feeling that we are just missing something. According to the article entanglement can occur on the scale of lightyears but those entanglements cannot be used to transmit information faster than the speed of light.

The linked article on Schrodinger's Hat seems to be violate another rule about observation, but there's always this caveat that prevents it from violating some quantum principal.

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#26
post #23

Could they possibly create 1-2 and 3-4 entangled pairs at the same time, measure 1 & 4 and then use this "projective measurement" trick to entangle 3 and 4? If so, could this affect the measurements of 1 and 4 in the past?

yes, i think, if you mean 2 and 3. you have 1-2 and 3-4, then you entangle 1-4 which I think should lead to 2-3 entanglement without the 2-3 couple ever interacting at all.

I think it is called entanglement teleportation.

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#28
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me be a little more precise here. What you basically need to know here is that entanglement describes a correlation between measurements , and you cannot know whether that correlation exists until you collect those measurements together. This is the fundamental reason why it does not "transmit information" faster than light in a certain sense. However, that phrasing is misleading because you can use it to do thin…

What makes the quantum players able to beat the limitation of the classical players with multiple trials? Every time I read an article discussing quantum mechanics, particularly new results in the field, I get more and more of the feeling that we are just missing something. According to the article entanglement can occur on the scale of lightyears but those entanglements cannot be used to transmit information faster…

It's just that they have access to an operation which classically doesn't exist, because their probabilities are complex numbers rather than real numbers. (Just as importantly, there are known limits to how great their correlation can be; the nice thing about Betrayal is that you can quickly prove that six classical random variables don't work no matter how they're jointly distributed.)

So what is this strange operation? There exist two nice "superposition over all states" quantum states for the three bits held by the three players:

    +++ = 000 + 001 + 010 + 011 + ... + 111
    −−− = 000 − 001 − 010 + 011 + ... − 111
Separately those states are not entangled: that is, +++ is made from the separable (0 + 1)(0 + 1)(0 + 1) while −−− is made from the separable (0 − 1)(0 − 1)(0 − 1). In both "pure" states any bit pattern from 000 to 111 has equal probability. Quantum mechanics now lets these observers have the superposition state:

    (+++) + (−−−) = 000 + 011 + 101 + 110
This is an entangled state. In this state you cannot be sure which of these four will occur, but they will each occur with even probability and the sum will be even. So that's the "control" experiment covered. But we could solve the "control" experiment with the 000 state too. What about the "traitor" experiment?

Here's where you need the complex numbers. Each of the "make the sum odd" people maps (+),(−) → (+),i(−). This is called a phase rotation, and you might know i² = -1 in the complex plane. These separate acts shift the global state to:

    (+++) + (−−−) → (+++) + i²(−−−) = (+++) − (−−−)
If you work it out you will find:

    (+++) − (−−−) = 001 + 010 + 100 + 111
So even though locally nobody can tell what's happened (every single person still has a 50/50 chance of seeing 0 or 1 by themselves), the global sum changes due to this phase rotation. That is what entanglement can get you, large-scale correlations.

As for proving that classical probabilities cannot do this, take six random variables no matter their joint distribution, call them Ao, Ae, Bo, Be, and Co, Ce -- what Alice, Bob, and Carol do when they're told to make the sum odd or even, respectively. The problem asks to make Ao + Bo + Ce ≡ Ao + Be + Co ≡ Ae + Bo + Co ≡ 1 (mod 2) while Ae + Be + Ce ≡ 0 (mod 2). Adding those four equations together gives 2 * (Ao + Bo + Co + Ae + Be + Ce) ≡ 3 (mod 2), but 3 isn't even. So it's not possible to satisfy all four equations all of the time with classical probabilities.

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#29
post #2

At the risk of being "that guy," a few thoughts popped into my head after reading this article. I couldn't help but reflect on the possibility of us just completely misunderstanding how the universe works. It wouldn't be the first time in history. What if: Our concept of time and matter is wrong, or our idea of quantum physics is interesting and useful, but ultimately wrong. Perhaps I'm just a simpleton but part of m…

At a mathematical level, it's pretty elegant how quantum mechanics works. At the level of the article, not so much. Once you get the math (and it really kind of clicks all at once), it's not too hard. The problem is that the math has a lot of historical baggage and the ways of translating equations into prose are not the most effective I think. The whole "uncertainty" thing bothers me. I think there's better ways of…

Do you have any sources for experiments ruling out our universe being deterministic? I'm not questioning you. I honestly have always been intrigued with the idea. Thanks.

Re: Physicists Create Quantum Link Between Photons That Don't Exist at the Same Time

#30
post #26
post #23

Could they possibly create 1-2 and 3-4 entangled pairs at the same time, measure 1 & 4 and then use this "projective measurement" trick to entangle 3 and 4? If so, could this affect the measurements of 1 and 4 in the past?

yes, i think, if you mean 2 and 3. you have 1-2 and 3-4, then you entangle 1-4 which I think should lead to 2-3 entanglement without the 2-3 couple ever interacting at all. I think it is called entanglement teleportation.

Yeah, I've meant entangling 2 & 3 pair and measuring 1 & 4. But my concern is if we can still use this trick after measuring 1 & 4?
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