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Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

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51–60 of 72 posts

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#51
post #30
post #12

I had a history professor who attended Berkeley in the 60s. He recalled the instructional methods used by one of his own professors at Berkeley: He simply got up to the podium, opened a textbook, and started reading. There was no discussion or chances to ask questions. As I recall, he indicated that this was a method of lecturing that had its roots in European academia. A question for HNers from India: With such a lo…

> are Anglo-American methods [...] transferred back to Indian universities by returnees who start academic careers? Of all the people I have come across, only two of them finished a session of post-doc in the west, and came back to India. One of them is at IISc, and I forgot where the other one is. To answer your question: my impression is that Indian academics seldom continue their academics in India. Most Indians w…

Perhaps MOOCs can save India.

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#52
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure in which part you disagree with me. Yes most of the present youth in India - who are in a position to make an impact, are not doing it. A very simple case - they would rather pay the bribe to get LPG connection rather than fight. But the poor, they cannot do that and they are not in a position to make an impact and are trapped. This is a vicious circle. The effect of reservation based on caste is debata…

I did the no bribe thing once. I wanted a certificate and the officer wouldn't give me one. Went to the bmc office almost every week for 3 months. Gandhiji would have got me the certificate on the very first day.

It is interesting to notice that Gandhiji is on every currency note. No one else is good enough to be on it?

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would an "economic-only pyramid" be a better thing? It's not obvious to me that this is an easier goal than not having a pyramid at all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triarchy_%28theory%29

That was almost an answer except in how it wasn't remotely an answer. Are you trying to say that plutocratic authoritarianism is the only reasonable way to run thing?

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#55
post #48

The article is partial to a very western view of education. Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do, especially when teaching to students who will have trouble following the class otherwise (by lack of discipline, by just being unused to that way of teaching or simply if they can't afford the references book you are asking them to read, or don't have the time to do that). The most imp…

> Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do

The issue isn't "lecturing from a book" vs "teaching from memory" but "literally reading from the book", expecting students to take notes(Why?) and classifying that as teaching.

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#56
post #48

The article is partial to a very western view of education. Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do, especially when teaching to students who will have trouble following the class otherwise (by lack of discipline, by just being unused to that way of teaching or simply if they can't afford the references book you are asking them to read, or don't have the time to do that). The most imp…

I agree that in the United States, we tend to morally stigmatize rote learning instead of recognizing that it can serve as valuable "scaffolding" for other learning processes. (For example, memorizing foreign language verb forms so you can practice using them in conversation. Rote memorization does not accomplish the end goal of fluency, but it greatly facilitates the conversational practice that does build fluency.)

However, I think it's a waste to spend class time with a professor on rote learning. Rote learning is a mechanical process that students can do on their own time. When they're in class with a professor, they should get the benefit of the professor's skill and knowledge.

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#57

There are no Indian universities in the top 200 universities according to the QS World Universities rankings. There are only 3 in the top 300! While I don't know if this is an institutional deficiency(lack of research, distinguished professors) or a lack of quality among students, one thing is for sure and that is Indian degrees are not very respected worldwide aside from possibly Indian Institute of Technology. From…

It's for lack of research, distinguished professors, facilities... certainly not the quality of students. Graduating from St. Stephen's nearly 30 years ago I can say that the average student there was pretty damn smart and really hard working.

The article is spot on in many respects, except for the reference to finding only one applicant to Brown that he really enthused over. That is his experience, but in mine I can assure you that there were a heck of a lot of students most top universities in the US would compete over. In my time the principal and other staff were far more liberal - there seems to have been a sad regression judging from the position of the present principal.

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#58
post #48

The article is partial to a very western view of education. Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do, especially when teaching to students who will have trouble following the class otherwise (by lack of discipline, by just being unused to that way of teaching or simply if they can't afford the references book you are asking them to read, or don't have the time to do that). The most imp…

[deleted]

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#59
post #48

The article is partial to a very western view of education. Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do, especially when teaching to students who will have trouble following the class otherwise (by lack of discipline, by just being unused to that way of teaching or simply if they can't afford the references book you are asking them to read, or don't have the time to do that). The most imp…

> Lecturing from a book, or from notes, is sometimes the right thing to do,

I don't see how this can ever be useful. I grew up in the Middle East and attended an Indian School which followed the CBSE syllabus. There was nothing in the syllabus per se that inspired me to ask why. That came from my innate interest and from the occasional teacher who went beyond what was taught.

The focus was on rote memorization. You could be assured of excellent marks if you simply regurgitated what was in the text book. So if you were a moron, but had great memory, you could get 90%+ on an exam, but did you actually know anything?

In high school, I loved math but I never did well in the exams because I didn't really understand what I was applying and why. My high school teachers told me that I would do better in a western system of education that focused more on application than rote memorization. This was borne true a few years later when I started my undegrad in the US and aced my math classes. Although to be fair, my previous exposure to higher math definitely helped. But what I gained most from my education in the US was that I knew why I was doing what I was doing.

> The US system seems to overemphasize understanding.

I fail to see how anyone can overemphasize understanding. Understanding is the point of learning something. I still remember one of my friends memorizing Physics derivations. I once tried to ask her to explain one particular step and she had no clue why it was being done. She had simply memorized it. I sucked at that; I cannot memorize anything if I do not understand it

> That's biased. How can you challenge the intellect and question paradigms if you don't know them in the first place?

He's talking about the paradigm of rote memorization and conformity. In school I was frequently docked points if I restated my answer in any form that was different from the text book. It didn't matter that what I was saying was essentially the same. I didn't use the language of the book and so it was "wrong". How does that teach anyone anything? I still remember being terribly frustrated because I knew that my answer was right but yet I was being penalized because I hadn't regurgitated what was in the book.

Rote memorization may be helpful, but it cannot be the central underpinning of any kind of educational system. The idea of education is to understand what is being taught and apply it. Not just to memorize and regurgitate it without any regard for the meaning. Otherwise you're not better than a parrot that repeats phrases without any idea of the meaning or context.

Re: Students are the victims and culprits of India’s broken higher education system

#60
post #33

The author of this article tweeted a response by a Professor from the same college: http://kafila.org/2013/05/06/the-golchakkar-of-premier-insti...

Wow that was bad. He basically says "well the arguments were a bunch of anecdotes therefore I will ignore them." Not once does he refute, even anecdotally, the charges made in the original.
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