Ubuntu 9.04 released • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#21

Post by quoderat » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 2:56 PM UTC

jherdman wrote: post #16

mitko wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. On my work computer the OS is Ubuntu, and on my home computer it is windows 7. Personally, I like the Windows interface.

He's not just talking about the GUI though. He's talking about the actual usage of the machine. Personally I find Windows to be a complete pain to use. The console is weak, the way files are laid out on the system irritates me, and their politics as a whole stinks. To each their own, but I concur with the GP.

Exactly. Powershell is some improvement, but still a pale imitation.

Windows feels fragile, and often is when you try to do anything difficult. How to bring an ethernet adapter down then up with a script in Windows? Very difficult, WMI calls and such.

In Linux? A line (really, a few characters) of script. Just one of the differences I've run into recently.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#22

Post by trezor » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:05 PM UTC

chancho wrote: post #15

quoderat wrote: post #2

I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.

Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows t…

Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows?

The Windows locking defaults when opening file-handles actually includes locking and has done so for such a long time that applications have come to depend on it.

If you check the Win32 API you will see applications have several options for requesting (or not requesting) file-locks when doing file-operations, but not using them, the defaults are to play it safe and ensure that no data is lost due to improper access.

Technologically speaking, this is kinda the same as you have in Linux, except that the defaults are the polar opposite.

Changing the defaults now would break havoc among multiple applications relying on the defaults and cause massive amounts of corrupted data. So Microsoft have kept them as is.

IOW: If you are having issues with file-locking, you need to blame the application-developer for not properly signalling what level and type of locking is actually required, because Windows will respect the locks set on file-handles. Maybe I'm the exception, but I consider that a good thing.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#23

Post by halo » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:06 PM UTC

chancho wrote: post #15

quoderat wrote: post #2

I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.

Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows t…

It's fixed in Windows 7 by telling you which application is using the file (http://lifehacker.com/5132227/windows-7-tells-you-why-you-ca...).

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#24

Post by k0n2ad » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:08 PM UTC

Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution of a magnificent OS. I just wish I could run design apps like Flash and Photoshop on it (and no, GIMP just doesn't do it for me).

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#25

Post by twopoint718 » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:08 PM UTC

jameskpolk wrote: post #12

twopoint718 wrote: post #8

Again, not an anti-MS person here, I support a large number of Windows clients, but it is not my OS of choice. Maybe there are user interface tweaks that one can perform on Windows (do tell) but I can never seem to get it as minimal as running something like fluxbox on Linux (to say nothing of ratpoison, stumpwm, or xmonad). My very unscientific poll of the computer support staff at my office shows that there is flux…

One option is LiteStep ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiteStep ), which can make the Windows UI like AfterStep. A friend of mine uses it and claims it works very well. Some other shell replacements exist, but I've never tried any of them.

That does look nice, thanks!

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#26

Post by old-gregg » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:09 PM UTC

chancho wrote: post #15

quoderat wrote: post #2

I am not an anti-Microsoft person, but after having used Linux now without even Windows installed for two years straight, it is actually mentally painful to use Windows. Yeah, use whatever works best for you -- but using Windows these days feels like I'm on my Big Wheel when I was three years old. In a rubber room.

Can someone with knowledge of the underlying OS mechanisms answer this for me: What is the deal with file access on Windows? In Linux (on the Mac too, I think) I can move, copy and delete files freely, regardless of what applications currently have that file open. On Windows, I always run into some situation where it won't let me do what I want to do because the file is open. So I have to hunt through 10-20 windows t…

This happens because of underlying implementation of file systems. UNIX-based systems have the notion of "linking/unlinking" files: a file is a link to a set of sectors on your hard drive. One can create many more links to the same data (using ln command). Deleting is the same as unlinking, i.e. removing a link. When the last link disappears, the file is considered "deleted". When an application opens a file, it creates yet another link to it, so nothing stops you from removing the link - the file isn't deleted yet since your app still uses its own.

I'm not sure how Windows can be "fixed" in this regard, since their filesystems don't have the notion of hard linking nor does Win32 API: there is no way you can move/delete file on Win32 while keeping existing open file handles alive.

However, the biggest issue with Windows, in my opinion, is Registry. Nearly all "popular" Windows gripes can be tracked down to registry abuse: decreasing performance over time, adware/spyware, viruses, etc... Registry is like a secondary file system, but much slower, more primitive, less secure and, most importantly, nearly completely hidden from the users: there are no tools with exception of primitive regedit, to deal with it.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#27

Post by thenduks » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:13 PM UTC

Mongoose wrote: post #13

sant0sk1 wrote: post #5

I'm excited for the next iteration when they revamp the default theme. Ubuntu owns but it needs to look prettier out of the box to really grab prospective switchers.

People have been saying that for 2 years. "The next version" is always when they'll dump the sordid brown.

I'm down with the brown.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#28

Post by nailer » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:15 PM UTC

cujo wrote: post #18

Mongoose wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying that for 2 years. "The next version" is always when they'll dump the sordid brown.

I don't think brown is the problem. The problem is that their brown is orange.

It's a combination of brown, peach (the colors from the original 'human skin tones' Ubuntu concept) and orange/red (newer, based on the Canonical logo).

I actually tried to organize a theme contest in conjuction with DeviantArt for 8.04, working with Ubuntu Artwork team, with prizes etc.

The first thing that happened was that winners were limited to working with the existing palette. The directive comes from Mark Shuttleworth and Ubuntu art are powerless to change it. The contest didn't go ahead.

However Mark seems to have recently changed his mind.

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#29

Post by twopoint718 » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:15 PM UTC

k0n2ad wrote: post #24

Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution of a magnificent OS. I just wish I could run design apps like Flash and Photoshop on it (and no, GIMP just doesn't do it for me).

As long as you're paying for PS, check out Codeweavers' Crossover Linux. You can run native Windows programs under Linux (Crossover is a tweaked version of Wine).

It looks like Photoshop isn't quite there yet though: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/cat/?cat_id=...

It is one of the top applications that they are working on: http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/toplists/

Re: Ubuntu 9.04 released

#30

Post by thenduks » Thu, Apr 23, 2009, 3:15 PM UTC

k0n2ad wrote: post #24

Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution of a magnificent OS. I just wish I could run design apps like Flash and Photoshop on it (and no, GIMP just doesn't do it for me).

I find VMWare performs quite well for that stuff. Still, I don't want to use Windows even in that scenario. So I just use a Mac instead. I think if just Photoshop had a decent counterpart on *nix that'd be enough to get me to switch.