NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400 • Hacker News Board

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#271

Post by namdnay » Thu, May 23, 2013, 10:03 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #262

namdnay wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is one of those ideas that became a meme because it is unquestionably true It sounds more like a rhetorical truism than a "true idea". Of course the police enforce the laws, that's what they're there for.

> It sounds more like a rhetorical truism And yet, people frequently dismiss it as a "libertarian meme." One doesn't have to look far on the Internet to find someone that will deny that government enforcement of things like taxation or zoning regulations do not constitute violence.

What I meant by truism is that it may be a logically consistent position given the initial assumptions, but it brings no additional knowledge. If you accept the government=violence condition, then ANY law, rule or regulation is upheld by violence.

When you don't pay alimony: violence. When you jaywalk: violence. When you litter: violence. When you wear shorts instead of trunks at the swimming pool: violence...

OK, great, we've established that there is violence everywhere. But what has that brought us? Nothing.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#272

Post by vacri » Thu, May 23, 2013, 10:26 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #267

vacri wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideas which are true tend to spread quickly. Nonsense. History is full of true ideas getting pounded flat. Sensationalist journalism is more effective than true journalism. So on and so forth. If "true ideas spread quickly", then religion would be dead in the water, all around the world. And seriously, hours between doing some tanning and getting arrested for violation of zoning laws!? Zoning law violation rarely end…

> History is full of true ideas getting pounded flat. That is not the logical complement of what I said. I only said that true ideas tend to spread quickly, which is obviously true. True ideas which were pounded flat are not counterexamples, because I'm talking about tendency.

It is a counterexample, because clearly untrue ideas also spread quickly, and history shows that untrue ideas stick far more easily - pursuing reason requires a lot of effort.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#273

Post by vacri » Thu, May 23, 2013, 10:35 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #268

vacri wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, it depends on whether you're using the English definition of 'violence' or the libertarian definition of the word.

I'm just using the definition that seems to be the first one listed in many English dictionaries. "Violence is the intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, against a person, or against a group or community, that either results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment or deprivation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence?redirect=no "Physic…

Your last two definitions don't fit unless you've a priori decided any government action is abuse - which is the wrong way to define things. Your first definition is so belaboured and tortuous that it sounds like libertarians have been at it.

And it's interesting to note that none of your definitions allow for natural phenomenon to be violent, yet we quite naturally talk about things like violent storms in English.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#274

Post by baddox » Thu, May 23, 2013, 5:21 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #272

baddox wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History is full of true ideas getting pounded flat. That is not the logical complement of what I said. I only said that true ideas tend to spread quickly, which is obviously true. True ideas which were pounded flat are not counterexamples, because I'm talking about tendency.

It is a counterexample, because clearly untrue ideas also spread quickly, and history shows that untrue ideas stick far more easily - pursuing reason requires a lot of effort.

That's still not a logical complement of what I said. I didn't say that only true ideas tend to spread quickly, or that they tend to spread more quickly than untrue ideas.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#275

Post by vacri » Thu, May 23, 2013, 10:18 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #274

vacri wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a counterexample, because clearly untrue ideas also spread quickly, and history shows that untrue ideas stick far more easily - pursuing reason requires a lot of effort.

That's still not a logical complement of what I said. I didn't say that only true ideas tend to spread quickly, or that they tend to spread more quickly than untrue ideas.

Really? The whole point of saying the statement at all is that 'true' ideas have this feature than other ideas don't have as much of. Now you say that non-true ideas spread just as quickly, the statement is utterly pointless.

If the 'trueness' of the idea is irrelevant to how quickly it spreads, as you've just said here, then your statement becomes "Ideas tend to spread quickly, regardless of their truth", which is pointless given the context.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#276

Post by baddox » Fri, May 24, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

vacri wrote: post #275

baddox wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still not a logical complement of what I said. I didn't say that only true ideas tend to spread quickly, or that they tend to spread more quickly than untrue ideas.

Really? The whole point of saying the statement at all is that 'true' ideas have this feature than other ideas don't have as much of. Now you say that non-true ideas spread just as quickly, the statement is utterly pointless. If the 'trueness' of the idea is irrelevant to how quickly it spreads, as you've just said here, then your statement becomes "Ideas tend to spread quickly, regardless of their truth", which is p…

Read closely. All I said is that the particular idea in question spread quickly because it is true and because true ideas tend to spread quickly. It is completely irrelevant if non-true ideas also spread quickly. What I said still holds.