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Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

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Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#131

Post by ghshephard »

tptacek wrote: post #127
ghshephard wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's these type of posts that make it to the top of a thread that make me not want to check into HN. Can't we celebrate a company, that was called out as a bad stimulus target during the presidential debates actually paying back all their loans ahead of time? If there was one place I hoped I could go to celebrate an innovative company's success, it would be HN. I take particular issue with, "Make no mistake, this is…

I didn't read this comment nearly as negatively as you seemed to have.

It was a gut reaction to the "PR ploy to Pump" phrasing - which made TSLA sound like some kind of boiler-room operation engaging in shady behavior. Also, it would have been nice to come to HN and see the top rated article on TSLA calling out all the positives, rather than focussing no the Debt, Dilution, Loss that TSLA is experiencing.

It's important to take time to celebrate victories, ours, and the people/organizations we look up to.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#132

Post by tptacek »

ghshephard wrote: post #131
tptacek wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read this comment nearly as negatively as you seemed to have.

It was a gut reaction to the "PR ploy to Pump" phrasing - which made TSLA sound like some kind of boiler-room operation engaging in shady behavior. Also, it would have been nice to come to HN and see the top rated article on TSLA calling out all the positives, rather than focussing no the Debt, Dilution, Loss that TSLA is experiencing. It's important to take time to celebrate victories, ours, and the people/organizat…

Facts about debt, dilution, and loss are extremely interesting and relevant to the story. Moreover, it seems like the worst thing he had to say about TSLA is that they're very good at marketing. Which is pretty important for a car company.

The HN problem is with middlebrow dismissals at the top of threads. I'd submit that the comment at the top of this one is neither "middlebrow" nor dismissive.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#133

Post by EGreg »

benaiah wrote: post #129
sjwright wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then who is going to "interfere" on behalf of the society at large? On behalf of the environment? Will individual consumers do what's right for the common good, for the first time in ever? Look, everyone is part socialist, part capitalist, part communist, part fascist, part anarchist. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking your current favourite blend of these colours is the one true path. If there's one thing…

I don't mean to imply I have the perfect system (though it obviously doesn't contain any errors I'm aware of), but rather that advocating a free market does not imply what he says it implies. Advocating a free market does not imply endorsing bribery and fraud. That was the extent of my point there.

I agree with you but the elephant in the room is, although you may be against "bribery and fraud" how would a community actually stop someone with enough money from doing just that, unless you do in fact have governments and regulations? What is going to balance the money signal? It's not enough to say that you are not for it, but what mechanism would the system actually have to deal with such abuses?

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#134

Post by benaiah »

EGreg wrote: post #133
benaiah wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to imply I have the perfect system (though it obviously doesn't contain any errors I'm aware of), but rather that advocating a free market does not imply what he says it implies. Advocating a free market does not imply endorsing bribery and fraud. That was the extent of my point there.

I agree with you but the elephant in the room is, although you may be against "bribery and fraud" how would a community actually stop someone with enough money from doing just that, unless you do in fact have governments and regulations? What is going to balance the money signal? It's not enough to say that you are not for it, but what mechanism would the system actually have to deal with such abuses?

Again, I am in favor of government, just not its economic interference. Reducing its economic interference actually reduces the motivation for corruption and bribery (not that I think that's enough). Bribery and corruption should still have legal penalties and be prosecuted by the government.

Abuse of wealth should still be a problem, but that doesn't require the government micromanaging that wealth.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#135

Post by elchief »

andrewtbham wrote: post #9

I own Tesla stock and I'm glad to see this. Tesla has been a highly politicized stock... largely because Mitt Romney and Sarah Palin called it a "loser." My hope is that this will help get rid of that stigma and help them with their image and political battle with dealerships in red states, like North Carolina and Texas. This also removes some strings attached to the DOE loan. For instance, Tesla could be acquired (a…

KPMG predicts an 85% fall in the number of cars required (long term).

Who do you think GOOG will turn to for the driverless cars? A big player or a little guy that can still grow in a shrinking market?

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#136

Post by glesica »

Shivetya wrote: post #53
mncolinlee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something bizarre about griping that they reached profitability from green credits. To clarify, these green credits were voluntarily paid by OTHER CAR COMPANIES like Fiat who did not innovate enough to develop their own green cars. In essence, these credits work similarly to carbon credits or sulfur credits. They are NOT paid by taxpayers or by the government in any way. It was a capitalist regulation in Cali…

they are not free, they are paid by any consumer who directly or indirectly has a relationship with someone who purchases a vehicle from one of the makers who is paying these credits. Voluntary my ass. If they don't pay what happens? Your fined. Its a tax. It is paid by consumers because they buy cars. If anything its California's way of having people in other states fund their initiatives. I guess kudos can go to Mu…

But it is a perfectly, wonderfully in fact, appropriate example of the government playing the role it is supposed to play by setting the terms of competition in the marketplace. Just as the government says I can't break into your house and take your stuff (which would just be another aspect of market competition, if you really liked your stuff you would have had better locks). If I do, you call the cops and punishment results. This isn't a waste of money or some sort of evil coercion, it's the government setting the rules we play by in a way that benefits everyone. Does the government always do this perfectly? Fuck no! But don't gripe about it when the system actually works!

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#137

Post by epicureanideal »

twoodfin wrote: post #102
nathan_long wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's absurd about it? If pollution has bad and expensive effects (asthma, flooding, crop loss), those creating it should pay to help deal with it. It's like paying to have your own trash picked up instead of dumping it in your neighbor's yard. If you doubt that pollution is bad, that's another story, but you're in the minority and outvoted.

And you really think the best way to do that is to subsidize toys for rich folks?

As far as I know, the subsidy is the same regardless of the price of the vehicle, so it doesn't apply only to "toys for rich folks". Also, I wouldn't say that a Tesla is a toy for rich folks. Many reasonably successful software engineers could afford one if they didn't want to spend their disposable income on other forms of entertainment.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#138

Post by AlisdairO »

twoodfin wrote: post #102
nathan_long wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's absurd about it? If pollution has bad and expensive effects (asthma, flooding, crop loss), those creating it should pay to help deal with it. It's like paying to have your own trash picked up instead of dumping it in your neighbor's yard. If you doubt that pollution is bad, that's another story, but you're in the minority and outvoted.

And you really think the best way to do that is to subsidize toys for rich folks?

As part of a long term plan to commoditise the technology and make it cheap, as you no doubt well know.

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#139

Post by varjag »

der3k wrote: post #67
jforman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Make no mistake, this is as much a PR ploy by Tesla to pump up their offering." I don't get your negativity here. The fact that a major green tech company working with government support is able to shift financing over to the private market is, indeed, a remarkable feat and is absolutely something they have a right to crow about. The government, too — it's an example of a progressive system working as designed. As f…

"I don't get your negativity here." I didn't get the negativity. He was just stating a reasonably deduced thought.

it's really hard to find a phrase starting with "make no mistake" that doesn't culminate with a negative or dismissive slam.

As urbandictionary puts it, "a weasel-y, thought-terminating phrase that is supposed to lend gravitas to a weak position in an argument. Used by doomsayers and the overly dramatic."

Re: Tesla Repays Department of Energy Loan Nine Years Early

#140

Post by Fuxy »

Finally a company with a sense of integrity and responsibility.

Regardless of how they raised the money the had a debt that they needed to pay and they did which is more then i can say about most companies. "Tesla will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government."

All other companies only care about their stock and how to make more money the last thing on their mind is paying back their debts and the government lets them get away with it because their "too big to fail".

Let me tell you something ...there's no such thing that is the result of their bad decisions and if they don't fail they will repeat the same mistakes again and again because they can.

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