The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#51

Post by MacsHeadroom » Thu, May 23, 2013, 1:00 AM UTC

AdrianRossouw wrote: post #45

> Combine the fact that TV is important, with the fact that the Xbox 360 has evolved into a Netflix box for many, i thought the ps3 was more widely used for streaming? it's pretty fscking ridiculous that you need to have gold membership AND netflix membership to stream with the xbox.

>i thought the ps3 was more widely used for streaming?

Not by a LONG shot.

And you don't need gold membership to use the Netflix app on xbox. Also, the Netflix app for xbox is much better than the PS3 app.

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#52

Post by slacka » Thu, May 23, 2013, 1:10 AM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #27

My take away: - PS4 and XBox One are going to be similar hardware wise, with the PS4 having an edge in raw power and the XBox One having an edge in "cleverness" (e.g. memory caching) and power consumption (lower). - Microsoft is re-using Hyper-V in a very awesome way(!). - HDMI passthrough is Microsoft's "ace in the hole." - Developers are going to have a great time this generation thanks to how similar the hardware…

> "Developers are going to have a great time this generation thanks to how similar the hardware is (identical in many cases)."

Sure the hardware will be similar, but what use is that if the APIs to access the hardware are totally different? I think the odds of Sony using DirectX in their SDK are pretty slim.

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#53

Post by minamea » Thu, May 23, 2013, 1:14 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #31

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #27

My take away: - PS4 and XBox One are going to be similar hardware wise, with the PS4 having an edge in raw power and the XBox One having an edge in "cleverness" (e.g. memory caching) and power consumption (lower). - Microsoft is re-using Hyper-V in a very awesome way(!). - HDMI passthrough is Microsoft's "ace in the hole." - Developers are going to have a great time this generation thanks to how similar the hardware…

Using cleverness to get better performance than your competitor is an edge; using cleverness to get the same performance in the common case but worse performance in the worst case is poor design. I suspect that HDMI passthrough will be a frustratingly unfulfilled promise, as it is with Google TV. Recent GPUs are virtualizeable (using multiple command queues); this is mostly targeted for VDI or cloud gaming but unused…

Dear god don't compare the Xbox to Google TV. No. Google TV was shit slow at launch and that was enough to kill it, imo.

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#54

Post by [deleted] » Thu, May 23, 2013, 1:45 AM UTC

Breakthrough wrote: post #50

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #27

My take away: - PS4 and XBox One are going to be similar hardware wise, with the PS4 having an edge in raw power and the XBox One having an edge in "cleverness" (e.g. memory caching) and power consumption (lower). - Microsoft is re-using Hyper-V in a very awesome way(!). - HDMI passthrough is Microsoft's "ace in the hole." - Developers are going to have a great time this generation thanks to how similar the hardware…

I don't know if I would consider HDMI passthrough as an ace in the hole... I mean I get how it would be cool to be able to overlay your cable box output on the screen, but this also implies that you would have to have your Xbox on every time you wanted to watch television. Unless, of course, the pass through works when the device is turned off... However, I haven't heard any mention yet that it does (does anyone know…

[deleted]

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#55

Post by lizardking » Thu, May 23, 2013, 2:30 AM UTC

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #51

AdrianRossouw wrote: post #45

> Combine the fact that TV is important, with the fact that the Xbox 360 has evolved into a Netflix box for many, i thought the ps3 was more widely used for streaming? it's pretty fscking ridiculous that you need to have gold membership AND netflix membership to stream with the xbox.

>i thought the ps3 was more widely used for streaming? Not by a LONG shot. And you don't need gold membership to use the Netflix app on xbox. Also, the Netflix app for xbox is much better than the PS3 app.

These posters on the official Xbox forums seem to all be under the impression that Gold is required.

http://forums.xbox.com/xbox_forums/xbox_feedback/f/2602/t/37...

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#56

Post by programminggeek » Thu, May 23, 2013, 2:54 AM UTC

The only reason I could see that Microsoft would make the choices they did was to save on cost or to be easier to scale up to 10's of millions of units a year by getting higher/cheaper chip yields faster than Sony can with basically identical chips. The only way that Microsoft can capitalize on that advantage will be to actually have a lower price faster since they don't have a one year head start this time.

Nintendo's only shot right now is to cut price on the Wii U.

Just remember that historically the magic number for console sales is $199. That's why the Xbox 360's entry price is $199 now and the Wii worked so well at $249 with a bundled game (basically $199 console + pack in game).

Mobile devices the sweet spot is more like say $150, which is why the DS did better than the PSP, 3DS than the Vita and so on.

Price makes a huge difference on consumer products and getting to certain price points can be the difference between success and failure other things being basically equal.

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#57

Post by NamTaf » Thu, May 23, 2013, 3:22 AM UTC

Breakthrough wrote: post #50

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #27

My take away: - PS4 and XBox One are going to be similar hardware wise, with the PS4 having an edge in raw power and the XBox One having an edge in "cleverness" (e.g. memory caching) and power consumption (lower). - Microsoft is re-using Hyper-V in a very awesome way(!). - HDMI passthrough is Microsoft's "ace in the hole." - Developers are going to have a great time this generation thanks to how similar the hardware…

I don't know if I would consider HDMI passthrough as an ace in the hole... I mean I get how it would be cool to be able to overlay your cable box output on the screen, but this also implies that you would have to have your Xbox on every time you wanted to watch television. Unless, of course, the pass through works when the device is turned off... However, I haven't heard any mention yet that it does (does anyone know…

That's the idea. Low power is to help justify leaving it on constantly. You don't ever turn this thing off - it just sleeps at such low power that you write it off like you do with a modern TV or the like.

Microsoft's betting the farm on the idea that a consumer will leave the xbox on 24/7 in a low-power state and have it as THE hub for all things digital entertainment. Your TV goes through it for advanced features such as TV channel guides, extra content, etc. You play games on it. You chat, take video calls and the like on it via Skype. You steam music/movies to it as your media player. All of it is controlled via the Kinect gestures and voice recognition. It is also why they're planning to push updates/etc. through in idle times (e.g.: overnight) when the device is left in low power but able to do basic tasks.

Basically, MS wants to take the beachhead they established with the first two generations and expand it. They want the Xbox One to go against the Apple TV and XBMC media centres and the like to become the all-encompassing portal of your entertainment.

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#58

Post by nly » Thu, May 23, 2013, 3:35 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #13

rbanffy wrote: post #3

It looks like the Sony machine will be more expensive (or its profit margins will be a lot lower). The PS4 seems to have a lot more hardware under the hood than the One. Having said that, as I pointed out elsewhere, it's now how many things your device does, but how well it does the thing that'll define its function. If it's an entertainment system, it's how well it entertains people. If it's a videogame, it's how fu…

The extra CUs in the PS4 are offset by the ESRAM in the One; I would expect the die size is similar. Sony has more expensive RAM, though.

Is the eSRAM really that expensive in $ terms? Yield issues?

I understood that SRAM was only really 'expensive' in that it chews up masses of die space (which isn't a bad bet going forward because there'll inevitably be a new version at some point with a smaller process)

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#59

Post by hayksaakian » Thu, May 23, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #18

hadem wrote: post #17

It it really necessary that the article be split between multiple pages. At first I wondered, "where is the comparison" until I found the drop down menu...

It is "necessary" in the sense that AnandTech would be out of business otherwise.

this feels like a real problem that some startup should solve.

clearly, websites that do this are shooting themselves in the foot in terms of UX, for the sake of pageviews and ad impressions. Is there now better way?

Re: The Xbox One: Hardware Analysis & Comparison to PlayStation 4

#60

Post by wmf » Thu, May 23, 2013, 3:39 AM UTC

nly wrote: post #58

wmf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The extra CUs in the PS4 are offset by the ESRAM in the One; I would expect the die size is similar. Sony has more expensive RAM, though.

Is the eSRAM really that expensive in $ terms? Yield issues? I understood that SRAM was only really 'expensive' in that it chews up masses of die space (which isn't a bad bet going forward because there'll inevitably be a new version at some point with a smaller process)

Yes, my assumption is cost = die size.