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NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

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Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#251
post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

>>Imagine the scenario if an AirBnBer does this with say a cigarette? How is the situation different if you have a friend stay over night? What if they house sit for you a couple of days? The only difference above is they are not paying you, but how does that affect liability?

Your home insurance will cover damage caused by friends staying over. They won't cover damage caused by customers of your (undeclared) business.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#252
post #28

My general libertarian bent generally would lead me to hate this sort of legislation, but in markets where housing is near max utilization, it's not only desirable, it's necessary. We already have enough of an issue with housing in places like NYC and SF without landlords turning apartment buildings into shitty hotels full of vacationers and Spring Break types who do not care the slightest for the condition of the pr…

The reason there isn't enough housing, in SF especially is government intervention. Zoning laws prevent housing supply meeting demand.

The question is: Would SF be as popular without zoning laws? If there were 50 story towers in the middle of the painted ladies, would it still be SF?

Or maybe I'm confusing zoning regulations with other codes.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#253
post #20
post #7

This is a win for New Yorkers. The whole sharing economy thing is unsafe, ridiculous, and kind of pathetic.

Please do explain. I think the sharing economy is brilliant and the way of the future. If there's spare capacity in the world, why should it not be utilized. Unsafe? Is it more unsafe to a degree that the ends don't justify the means? I doubt it.

I wouldn't say AirBnb is sharing. That would be couchsurfing

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#254
post #73
post #62

I've had this argument with several people. Their position is that "it's my house/apartment, I should be able to do what I want with it" (even when renting they use this argument). My argument is that this is not and has never been true. You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment. What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. An endless…

Your argument is completely shallow and void of reason.. > You can't, for example, run a tannery in your apartment Why not? Whats your argument? >What's more, as a resident (and especially if I were an owner) I wouldn't want my building being a de facto hotel. If I owned a building then I set the rules/laws. This is about property rights, not about what you think is right or wrong. If I want to turn my home into a tr…

Ugh. libertarian alert.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So because there is dependence on some monopolistic entity for contract disputes (there really shouldn't be) Its definitional: if you aren't seeking the threat of state enforcement to enforce a set of mutual promises, you don't have a contract, you have a mutual set of promises that lacks the intent necessary to form a contract. > then that gives justification for that entity to intrude on voluntary actions? Yes, u…

> Its definitional: if you aren't seeking the threat of state enforcement to enforce a set of mutual promises, you don't have a contract, you have a mutual set of promises that lacks the intent necessary to form a contract. That is one definition, but not the only. And I'm sure there are creative ways to enforce contracts without State force--third-party arbitration could be an option, social pressure, etc. Most cont…

What do you think a representational government is except the exertion of social pressure backed by force?

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#256
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more than one to solve social problems. Centralized, violent, compulsory action (government) is one way, but there are others. Opposing "the government solution" is not the same thing as denying the problem or refusing to fix it.

How are zoning regulations "violent"?

It's a standard libertarian meme. Resist the government long enough and eventually - eventually might take years - someone wearing a gun will come and arrest you. Since they're arresting you with superior arms to the point of perhaps pointing them at you, this means doing so is violent, hence everything the government ever does is 'backed by violence', hence everything they ever do to limit you in any way is 'violen', no matter how minor that limitation might be. It's one of the more tortuous aspects of libertarian rhetoric.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#257
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are zoning regulations "violent"?

It's a standard libertarian meme. Resist the government long enough and eventually - eventually might take years - someone wearing a gun will come and arrest you. Since they're arresting you with superior arms to the point of perhaps pointing them at you, this means doing so is violent, hence everything the government ever does is 'backed by violence', hence everything they ever do to limit you in any way is 'violen'…

This is one of those ideas that became a meme because it is unquestionably true. Ideas which are true tend to spread quickly. And, regarding this specific example, it's ludicrous to claim that it might take years if you violate zoning regulations. It would be more like hours.

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged. Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short-term renting within their contract. The other problem is... what's the difference between me using AirBNB and me knowing a friend who let me stayed at his place for 6 days and I…

> When you forced to pay $300/night in Manhattan at the W hotel, Atlas Shrugged. No one is "forcing" you to spend $300/night in Manhattan for a hotel. You should read that book again because you are also not using "Atlas Shrugged" in a meaningful context. > Not a AR fan btw, just saying both sides of the fence have their pros and cons. I'd place higher value on an apartment complex that explicitly did not allow short…

> No one is "forcing" you to spend $300/night in Manhattan for a hotel. You should read that book again because you are also not using "Atlas Shrugged" in a meaningful context.

Good luck finding a hotel for cheaper than $200 at least in Manhattan :) And you're right, you're not forced, you're more than welcome to sleep on the public streets.

> Laws and regulations around housing are put in place to protect all residents, the landlord, the community,

To a certain extent this is true, but this does not take away the fact that me selling my house for a few days that I'm gone to someone else should be illegal. You're also assuming that I want to throw out EVERY SINGLE LAW OMGBBQ. Talk about being "extreme." Good gosh Charlie Brown.

> regardless of what Joe the landlord remembered or didn't remember to put into his stock lease.

There's this magical thing called lawyers. They're pretty cool once you get to know them, even the "sharks." Without them, writing contracts would be to hard for my small brain :(

> And what's the difference between cooking for friends who give you money for groceries and opening a restaurant in your apartment? You can always make an argument that appeals to the extreme in making your case, but thankfully that doesn't make it a legally relevant argument.

I'm actually a big advocator of people starting up restaurants in small capacity places (remember, we can be a vegan restaurant with absolutely no use of a stove, only an oven which means a safe, contained, and controlled environment) such as homes and/or "food trucks".

And you were right about the AS comment, good call :) (like I said not an AR fan I was under the presumption that it had to do something with business owners leaving due to all of these rules and leaving the "big guys" to look after everyone).

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#259
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more than one to solve social problems. Centralized, violent, compulsory action (government) is one way, but there are others. Opposing "the government solution" is not the same thing as denying the problem or refusing to fix it.

How are zoning regulations "violent"?

How are they not violent? What would happen if you really did set up a loud assembly in a Manhattan apartment?

Re: NY official: Airbnb stay illegal; host fined $2,400

#260
post #257
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a standard libertarian meme. Resist the government long enough and eventually - eventually might take years - someone wearing a gun will come and arrest you. Since they're arresting you with superior arms to the point of perhaps pointing them at you, this means doing so is violent, hence everything the government ever does is 'backed by violence', hence everything they ever do to limit you in any way is 'violen'…

This is one of those ideas that became a meme because it is unquestionably true. Ideas which are true tend to spread quickly. And, regarding this specific example, it's ludicrous to claim that it might take years if you violate zoning regulations. It would be more like hours.

> This is one of those ideas that became a meme because it is unquestionably true

It sounds more like a rhetorical truism than a "true idea". Of course the police enforce the laws, that's what they're there for.

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