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Hacker News is depressing

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Re: Hacker News is depressing

#261

Post by pseut »

abraxasz wrote: post #237
shadowfiend wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no fundamental incompatibility between being honest and being respectful and understanding. You can tell someone “you suck, go back to the corner of the Internet you came from, I don't have time for this”, or you can tell them “your skills don't seem to be quite at the level where we can accept your contributions; in particular, you don't understand X, Y, and Z very well and it shows in your code. I'm short…

I understand that this might be specific to me, but I'd actually rather have someone tell me: "You're useless. For god's sake stop contributing until you get your sh t together" rather than: “your skills don't seem to be quite at the level where we can accept your contributions; in particular, you don't understand X, Y, and Z very well and it shows in your code. I'm short on time, but if someone else has time to expl…

Maybe, if they're right. If they're wrong, the second one is a lot better than the first.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#263

Post by dspeyer »

Going one level meta, there's a specific thing that bugs me in this discussion. I'm seeing the words "abuse" and "butthurt" used a lot. Using either word makes a claim that the negativity in the previous thread was or was not excessive. But it doesn't make an argument to that effect. It's just an unsupported, emotion-tugging claim. That's bad debate. Please stop.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#264

Post by egypturnash »

doorhammer wrote: post #111
zeteo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the meanness of programming communities is a the biggest problem we have Or maybe it's our biggest asset. In a world filled with bullshit (how many people you think really empathize with you - vs. just going through the motions?), it's refreshing to have a little corner where they honestly tell you why your ideas suck and your background is deficient. It kind of comes with the profession, yes. Only a relentlessly cr…

You can cut out a lot of bullshit without being an asshole; it's just another set of social skills. Being an asshole also doesn't inherently cut out bullshit.

Where do you think bullshit comes from anyway? Bull assholes. n.n

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#265

Post by tunesmith »

simonsarris wrote: post #25

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

I went to college in the early 90's... just thought I'd share the sense that programmers have gotten more polite over time.

That could either be that the community is creating norms that make all programmers more polite, or, just that programmers as a group tend to get more polite as they get older.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#266

Post by brudgers »

danilocampos wrote: post #246
brudgers wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is defending their writing as writing, then what else is there as far as the reader is concerned. On the other hand if one is just kicking the dog, a blog might be more appropriate than HN given the scaffold of values Graham has said he wishes to establish. [Graham's opinions are interesting because they are enforceable]. That being said, the question of whether one should or should not work on Graham's scaffo…

I guess that's fair. My impulses in writing are generally selfish, though – I write mostly to resolve questions or annoyances in my mind. But secondarily, yes, as an exercise to test my knack for persuasion, so your feedback on being interesting is well taken. I positively relish your rhetorical style, by the way.

Thanks, I write for myself, and I think I'm a pompous ass. A log of the ideas about readers comes from parroting Zinnser's On Writing Well. I had it out from the library earlier this year.

One of the benefits of HN for me is that I don't get terribly upset about the subject matter - usually. I've tried to stop writing about things that I am upset about, both online and in my journal. It's made writing a much more pleasant experience.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#267

Post by TheCowboy »

pg wrote: post #195

I'm not sure what he's proposing. If he means let site owners specify that people not be able to submit their sites to HN, I've actually daydreamed occasionally about doing that myself for paulgraham.com. But it might not work in practice, because determined submitters would just mirror the text elsewhere and submit that. He's right though that Twitter has a big advantage in that it's easy to ignore jerks. It might b…

Randy Pausch, the Carnegie professor known for The Last Lecture, once expressed a brilliant way one of his mentors talked to him about being a jerk:

"And he put his arm around my shoulders and we went for a little walk and he said, Randy, it’s such a shame that people perceive you as so arrogant. Because it’s going to limit what you’re going to be able to accomplish in life. What a hell of a way to word “you’re being a jerk.” [laughter] Right? He doesn’t say you’re a jerk. He says people are perceiving you this way and he says the downside is it’s going to limit what you’re going to be able to accomplish."

I always think it would be interesting if that approach could be abstracted into a tool for online community 'civility management'. Could the upvote/downvote approach be amended? Could there be another upvote option for civility? A button to remind people to relax and take the angst somewhere else? I don't know. The best approach might be far removed from the users-as-voters paradigm.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#268

Post by forwardslash »

pg wrote: post #195

I'm not sure what he's proposing. If he means let site owners specify that people not be able to submit their sites to HN, I've actually daydreamed occasionally about doing that myself for paulgraham.com. But it might not work in practice, because determined submitters would just mirror the text elsewhere and submit that. He's right though that Twitter has a big advantage in that it's easy to ignore jerks. It might b…

We have following and blocking of users and domains over at hubski (originally an hn clone) and it works pretty well. In particular being able to completely block someone from your feed and/or prevent them from commenting on your posts.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#269

Post by dgregd »

pg wrote: post #195

I'm not sure what he's proposing. If he means let site owners specify that people not be able to submit their sites to HN, I've actually daydreamed occasionally about doing that myself for paulgraham.com. But it might not work in practice, because determined submitters would just mirror the text elsewhere and submit that. He's right though that Twitter has a big advantage in that it's easy to ignore jerks. It might b…

If the micro-blogging platform is worth $1.1 billion then a platform which will solve the problem we are discussing here might be worth more.

Maybe you can outsource comments moderation to a group of competing startups. Not for all posts but for 10% or 20% of front page posts. Maybe we will see a "pagerank" algorithm for comments or something more clever.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#270

Post by 6cxs2hd6 »

Remember the two bulls joke from Colors? [1]

Think of Dave Winer as Robert Duvall. He's telling you a story about the promises and reality of acquisitions.

Those of you complaining about him? You're Sean Penn.

Thing is, someday you'll be telling this to a young 'un, just like Penn did at the end of the movie.

"The explanations required by the young are wearying." [2]

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbUxePfsoWE

[2]: Look it up.

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