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Hacker News is depressing

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81–90 of 398 posts

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#81

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

You are comparing apples and oranges. Linus works on the kernel, it's like a fight between coworkers. Winer talks about the usual internet trolling in general.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#82

I thought people were a bit harsh yesterday too

It was mostly people saying personal attacks weren't helpful and self reflection then this post came out and said "IM TOTALLY BUTTHURT SO IM TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME". I'm not really sure which is worse but neither is good.

then this post came out ... I'm not really sure which is worse

It should be perfectly acceptable to decide you are done with a conversation and want out. We can't demand people stick around to be abused.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#83

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

EDIT: In the spirit of being less negative, I'm deleting my original comment. I still contend that Mauro was in the wrong, and refused to acknowledge or fix his mistake, but will agree that Linus probably could have handled it better.

>You can probably stop reading now, because you obviously didn't read the whole Linus/Mauro thread from the beginning, and don't really want to understand.

Amazing.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#84

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

>the meanness of programming communities is a the biggest problem we have

Or maybe it's our biggest asset. In a world filled with bullshit (how many people you think really empathize with you - vs. just going through the motions?), it's refreshing to have a little corner where they honestly tell you why your ideas suck and your background is deficient. It kind of comes with the profession, yes. Only a relentlessly critical kind of person can effectively hunt down bugs and deal with dozens of other frustrating problems everyday.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#85

I put myself on a self-imposed break (which I'm breaking now, sorry; it seems to be more of a one-post-per-day policy) from HN because I don't want to be contributing to the problem. But as long as the quality of my posts doesn't degrade (flame wars do that) I think 1 per day is fine. I think we, as a group, tend to be shitty judges of character, but our arrogance blinds us to the need for improvement. We're cynical…

[deleted]

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#86
post #64

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

We have as much right to defend the behavior as you have to attack it. It's an arbitrary questions of norms and of tolerance to criticism. In modern society it seems that we're so isolated and insecure in ourselves that we can't handle criticism and meanness. That everyone must be over socialized to be overly concerned about what everyone else thinks and not be concerned about the objectivity of what we're trying to…

Are you sure his problem was really criticism? I think that his problem was rather that people were making value judgements about his character in a manner that what he felt was unfair.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#87
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, pg is not gonna be happy. Communities like this are like water: it changes constantly sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. The only thing to be happy about is whether or not it's thriving . And, in my opinion, limiting the number of participants in this community would be a terrible mistake. Perhaps there's other ways to limit trolling, such as limiting the number of comments you can submit pe…

>Communities like this are like water: it changes constantly sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. The only thing to be happy about is whether or not it's thriving. I agree but wouldn't it be nice if we could keep it changing for the better? EDIT: Sorry if I wasn't clear, some really good ideas have been presented here, I only posted the first couple ideas that came to mind, expecting all the other re…

No.

Simply because you can't grow (for the better) by insulating yourself from all the "bad stuff".

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#88
As a top-voted dissenting opinion on Dave's piece yesterday, I find myself compelled to chime in.

> I honestly don't care what the HN trolls, and the people who upvote them, supposedly "think" about me.

If that's true, why 750 words on the subject?

The issue I take with Dave Winer is that he seems to feel as though his accomplishments or contributions somehow elevate his words beyond criticism.

I will say again what I said yesterday – his post "about" Marissa Mayer was something I can only characterize as whiney. We can call it other things if that's less offensive: petulant, self-indulgent, self-aggrandizing, perhaps. But the sense of entitlement to the respect and admiration of other people was something that dripped off of the post, and then off of his comments, and is a recurring theme, to my eye, of the man's writing.

His poor rhetorical choices – name-dropping, specifically – overshadowed his point. That's the gamble you make when writing headline-driven link bait.

But guess what? Fuck me, because I'm just some guy on the internet. But guess what else? So is Dave.

Participating in a technology doesn't afford a permanent apotheosis to all of one's self and works. Your words must still carry their own water. There's effective persuasion and then there's ineffective persuasion. Those outcomes vary depending on the audience.

Now we all have a choice: we can tightly corral our words. We can be selective in our audience, we can dole out our rhetoric with caution and precision.

Or we can blast that shit out to the whole of the world.

Now, Dave is quite excited to tell us how he helped make such a feat possible. And the consequence of his great work is we all get to talk about it. And sometimes we're not going to agree.

Sometimes we're not going to worship.

And that's life.

I take the point very well that HN comments can be pretty toxic. But a lot of the dissent around what gets posted from Dave Winer seems pretty legit. Even PG has weighed in on his poor attitude:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1644147

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#89
post #6

So I have a suggestion for Paul Graham, the guy who runs Hacker News. Give sites the option of blocking links from Hacker News. That could certainly be implemented (either on Hacker News, or by the site owner doing a redirect to a permanent 404 based on the referrer). But that seems like a loss. It's a loss to HN if links to scripting.com were forbidden. Also, within the thread that he is talking about there was a gr…

Does it matter whether it's a loss to HN? When people/groups abuse their privileges, taking those privileges away is not a bad thing. Maybe having a few good sites block HN would cause commenters to think more carefully before posting vitriol, or upvoting it. I missed the thread the first time around, but I looked it up, and it's pretty disappointing. Despite there being lots of top-level comments about the actual content of the blog post, the highest top-level comment is just a mean personal attack. I see it on a lot of other HN posts too, and I don't get it. How does it contribute anything to say that this or that topic isn't worth talking about and, by the way, the author smells and he has a funny name?

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#90
post #64

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

We have as much right to defend the behavior as you have to attack it. It's an arbitrary questions of norms and of tolerance to criticism. In modern society it seems that we're so isolated and insecure in ourselves that we can't handle criticism and meanness. That everyone must be over socialized to be overly concerned about what everyone else thinks and not be concerned about the objectivity of what we're trying to…

I think you're conflating criticism and being mean. It's quite possible to offer kind, empathetic criticism, which I would argue is more effective. When the person receiving criticism doesn't see it as an attack, he/she is far more likely to listen to it.
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