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Hacker News is depressing

threads2.scripting.com

41–50 of 398 posts

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#41
post #12

I'm very sorry it has come this far. It's easy to forget we have a tendency to make remarks about people online that we would never bring up in a personal conversation. I'm not excluding myself here, I too feel I'm sometimes harsher online than offline - and it sadly also happened in the Dave Winer thread yesterday. People can come across in a certain way through their writing that we would never attribute to them if…

"It's important to acknowledge that most commenters on HN do not behave that way, but some do and they are very loud."

I think part of this is just the dynamics of community-moderated comments. In my experience, the way to get upvotes in any such forum (not just HN) is to express an opinion in the strongest terms you possibly can. "X is dead" gets upvotes. "X has some challenges to overcome, and it might" doesn't. People like and respond to simple, clear arguments that don't admit weakness or uncertainty.

This dynamic then feeds on itself, as the people who are the best at forcefully stating their opinions become top commenters, crowding out more cautious voices and providing a bad role model that the next generation of would-be top commenters follows.

How do you fix this? It's poisoned so many great communities I've belonged to, so I wish I knew. But I don't.

EDIT: I have seen one mechanism that helps mitigate this: hide the users' actual karma scores.

Karma is a scoring mechanism. That turns forums that use it into a video game (of the type very well parodied by http://www.forumwarz.com/about). Participants compete with each other to see who can get the highest score. Hiding the actual numbers from users takes some of the fun out of this, which cuts down on trolling.

Slashdot used to show your exact karma score, and they had these exact same problems. Eventually they switched to just a text label ("Excellent", say, for high-karma users) that indicated your general karmic position, and the comments got a lot better very fast. Nobody's going to put as much time in to go from "Excellent" to "Excellent" as they might to go from, say, 2,500 to 5,000.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#42
post #12

I'm very sorry it has come this far. It's easy to forget we have a tendency to make remarks about people online that we would never bring up in a personal conversation. I'm not excluding myself here, I too feel I'm sometimes harsher online than offline - and it sadly also happened in the Dave Winer thread yesterday. People can come across in a certain way through their writing that we would never attribute to them if…

I try hard to avoid attacking people (even if they attack me), and address the points of whatever argument, observation or value judgment (if any) was made in a comment. I figure I won't change the mind of someone so obviously misguided, but I can still make the case for the reader who is trying to sort things out.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#43

This is curious, maybe a little too reactionary[1], but I think we could use the introspection. On the one hand, being argued about is a problem a lot of people would like to have. I spent two years making a large canvas diagramming library and I would have loved for it to have frontpage'd on HN, even if everyone just told me it was terrible. On the other hand, I do think the meanness of programming communities is a…

If I understand what you're asking re [1], I believe he's stating that the HN commentators are making comments about him and his past work unaware of his latest work (shipped 2 products recently and working with javascript).

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#45
Reading the comments yesterday was as Dave said, depressing. I ended up closing the window because I really didn't want read any more of the comments. People began attacking his second name and that was when it went further than too far.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#46
post #30

I thought people were a bit harsh yesterday too

Context? I'm not up to date :(

The discussion in question is here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5738455

It was about this post by Dave Winer: http://threads2.scripting.com/2013/may/myOneTalkWithMarissaM...

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#47
>I honestly don't care what the HN trolls, and the people who upvote them, supposedly "think" about me.

If only that were true, I'd have spent even less time this week on meta-HN-drama.

And I reject or seriously, seriously, seriously lament that "discourse has moved to twitter". That sounds like the opener to George Orwell's 2084 or something.

Re: Hacker News is depressing

#48
As with anything, you shouldn't take it too seriously. Yes, it's depressing that trolls get upvoted ("A troll is someone who, finding that no-one likes them, decides to pretend that it's on purpose."), yes it hurts to have supposedly intelligent people pick apart everything you say or do, but hey, don't let the bastards grind you down. Try to remain positive; sometimes just being obstinately optimistic will make the worst of humanity run away screaming or quietly fume.

And yes, sometimes I've been that asshole; don't take it personally; it's me, not you :)

That being said, just because you know a language is "bad" doesn't mean you won't use it (that comment is directed not just at the OP but also the trolls who assumed he was an idiot for knowingly using a "bad" language).

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