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Google drops XMPP support

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Re: Google drops XMPP support

#31

Post by clockwerx »

rbanffy wrote: post #15
Svip wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. I thought Google wanted to avoid being Microsoft and Apple, with their unofficial motto, 'don't be evil'. I prefer it when someone showcases their willingness to be 'the nicer guy' by opening up while the others are closing down. Like allowing to export your GMa…

> I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. Why would Google want to invest resources on giving Microsoft an unfair advantage over themselves? Microsoft being jerks is the rule since that open letter Bill Gates sent to the Homebrew Computer Club. In other words, why would you invite a guest that is know…

So you can have them steal the 'i am with stupid' branded clothing; with the giant arrow to the thief?

microsoft permitting mitm/google ads in their product ftw

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#33

Post by chris_wot »

Svip wrote: post #14
patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. I thought Google wanted to avoid being Microsoft and Apple, with their unofficial motto, 'don't be evil'. I prefer it when someone showcases their willingness to be 'the nicer guy' by opening up while the others are closing down. Like allowing to export your GMa…

That is hopelessly naive, and not only that but it allows Microsoft to continue to lock in people to their own products.

Think about this: Microsoft spent a fair amount of resources integrating with gtalk, now they can't use it. The only way for them to gain access is to open up their own platforms. Once they do, then everyone is on a more level playing field.

The days of Microsoft shafting the competition through lock-in and anti-competitive behaviour is fast coming to an end. I'm not shedding any tears.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#34

Post by blablabla123 »

fdr_cs wrote: post #20
josteink wrote: post #13

The irony of this coming from Microsoft, a company which has never had a single mainstream XMPP-based product and owner of Skype, which has sent Cease and Desist letters to people creating Skype-XMPP bridges, is not lost on me. That said, if Google keeps locking down all their former open products/platforms, I will be fleeing ship. If Hangouts (which replaces Gtalk) drops XMPP support, I see no reason to keep using i…

The sad part is that you will, and some more people will to, but, the mass, will not, because they don't care. If they did, they would not accept ms closed format instead of odt, they would not accept facebook, and would w3c would not create drm extensions as 'open standars' . That's what's sad.

> the mass, will not, because they don't care.

They don't know. Many of those people use multiple instant messengers in parallel, some even use messenger that speak multiple protocols. If these people knew they could interoperate all those, they'd find it awesome.

BTW, drm has nothing to do with interoperation. At least nothing negative, because it enables proprietary content to be delivered in a platform-neutral fashion. Thus killing one more reason to use/create proprietary browser plugins.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#35

Post by chris_wot »

reneky wrote: post #21
rbanffy wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. Why would Google want to invest resources on giving Microsoft an unfair advantage over themselves? Microsoft being jerks is the rule since that open letter Bill Gates sent to the Homebrew Computer Club. In other words, why would you invite a guest that is know…

> Why would Google want to invest resources on giving Microsoft an unfair advantage over themselves? Because it's good for the users.

It's not good for users to allow Microsoft to get away with vendor lock-in. This may force Microsoft's hand. That's good for users.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#36

Post by prajjwal »

pchander wrote: post #17
jamii wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Register your own domain and sign up for the free version of google apps. I have a gmail inbox for jamie@scattered-thoughts.net but if I need to change services I just move the MX record and upload my backups elsewhere.

The free version of google apps has been discontinued. New users can no longer sign up for it.

Not to mention the fact that you can still get excellent Outlook.com webmail with your own domain for free.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#37

Post by fakeer »

nmjenkins wrote: post #26
fakeer wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like an open market without hardly a player other than Google and the elk. There's a market specially for paying customers.

Have you looked at fastmail.fm? We do paid email right. And we have a web interface that's faster, slicker and more powerful than GMail. Disclaimer: I (obviously) work for FastMail. But still, you should check it out. :)

I've a free account - so I open it once in a while. Had enquired some time ago and figured you guys don't host email, rather forward or sth[1]. Still that's the case?

I have also read somewhere that you provide XMPP (or not?) but there's nothing like chat history[2]. Status - etc? I'm not very much familar with XMPP as in what it supports and what not.

Why does it want to me to have a FastMail email address where as all I am going to have is a user-name@my-domain.com. That's an extra Email ID to take care of or it's useless anyway if I'm not supposed to use it other than logging in, or is it[1]^. Looks like this is available in Family and Business account. That's odd. What's the point? Can you please provide a full side by comparison of Family - Biz - Enhanced - Premier?

Maximum attachment size is sth that ought to be at least 100MB (or 200MB in today's Internet) but that can be tolerated with Dropbox, CloudApp and all around.

One good thing is, I can use many domains in same account for just one price, this very attractive if I've read it right and seems you are a webhost too. Well, too many things.

I'm tempted but it doesn't seem to be a replacement for my mail-task-calendar-IM workflow which is very integrated and crucial.

Any words on that? And also, regarding [1]^, so you guys are nor email hosts as in email hosts now - just to confirm?

Glad to talk to someone directly at FM and not inside a support ticket.

[2] - saved as email, covered.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#38

Post by mdwrigh2 »

0x006A wrote: post #9
patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

i keep reading that its not federated and yet i am still chatting with people on gmail via xmpp via my own xmpp server.

Until they upgrade to hangouts from GTalk, federation will continue to work.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#40

Post by nmjenkins »

fakeer wrote: post #37
nmjenkins wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you looked at fastmail.fm? We do paid email right. And we have a web interface that's faster, slicker and more powerful than GMail. Disclaimer: I (obviously) work for FastMail. But still, you should check it out. :)

I've a free account - so I open it once in a while. Had enquired some time ago and figured you guys don't host email, rather forward or sth[1]. Still that's the case? I have also read somewhere that you provide XMPP (or not?) but there's nothing like chat history[2]. Status - etc? I'm not very much familar with XMPP as in what it supports and what not. Why does it want to me to have a FastMail email address where as…

We have always hosted email (to use your own domain you will need an Enhanced or Premier personal account, or any of the Family/Business accounts). We support XMPP fairly completely I believe; you can certainly set a status! Chat history is saved by default and delivered as emails to a Chats folder in your account (so nicely searchable by our swish new email search infrastructure).

You need to pick a FastMail username to use to log in, even if you want to host your own domain. You never have to use this email address if you don't want to.

Family and business accounts are designed for hosting multiple separate accounts (with full separate logins) under the same (normally custom) domain, all on a single bill. There are features for administrating the different accounts and a shared address book. A personal (e.g. Enhanced) account is a single set of mailboxes/login, however can be used with multiple email addresses/domains.

Hope that answers your questions.

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