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Google drops XMPP support

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Re: Google drops XMPP support

#11

Post by jamii »

zmb_ wrote: post #8
Derbasti wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I jumped a long time ago. But to this day, there is no web app comparable to GMail or GCal.

When it comes to services like email, the quality of the user interface is really secondary. The primary concern is the ability to trust that I will remain accessible through the identifier (email address) that I've spread around to many people and places over the years. Given Google's service shutdowns, dropped support for protocols, and the horror stories of seemingly accidental account closures with no recourse, I…

Register your own domain and sign up for the free version of google apps. I have a gmail inbox for jamie@scattered-thoughts.net but if I need to change services I just move the MX record and upload my backups elsewhere.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#13

Post by josteink »

The irony of this coming from Microsoft, a company which has never had a single mainstream XMPP-based product and owner of Skype, which has sent Cease and Desist letters to people creating Skype-XMPP bridges, is not lost on me.

That said, if Google keeps locking down all their former open products/platforms, I will be fleeing ship.

If Hangouts (which replaces Gtalk) drops XMPP support, I see no reason to keep using it.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#14

Post by Svip »

patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. I thought Google wanted to avoid being Microsoft and Apple, with their unofficial motto, 'don't be evil'.

I prefer it when someone showcases their willingness to be 'the nicer guy' by opening up while the others are closing down. Like allowing to export your GMail contacts, while Facebook won't go the other way around.

I always find Microsoft complaining to be hypocritical, they are usually committing a similar overreach towards a competitor themselves. But still, where are the 'good guys'?

I know, that would be naïve, this is business.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#15

Post by rbanffy »

Svip wrote: post #14
patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. I thought Google wanted to avoid being Microsoft and Apple, with their unofficial motto, 'don't be evil'. I prefer it when someone showcases their willingness to be 'the nicer guy' by opening up while the others are closing down. Like allowing to export your GMa…

> I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light.

Why would Google want to invest resources on giving Microsoft an unfair advantage over themselves? Microsoft being jerks is the rule since that open letter Bill Gates sent to the Homebrew Computer Club.

In other words, why would you invite a guest that is known to steal stuff and not flush toilets into your home?

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#16

Post by larsberg »

Derbasti wrote: post #3
Nux wrote: post #2

Jump ship, guys! SMTP is next!

I jumped a long time ago. But to this day, there is no web app comparable to GMail or GCal.

fastmail.fm has made me extremely happy as a mail replacement, though I've been using icloud for calendar, so I can't speak to their replacement for that.

The only downside to the fastmail mail is you need ~200 spams learned before the bayseian filter kicks in, so the first two days were a bit "noisy" for me. After that, though, it reduced the ~10 spams per day that would make it through gmail down to 1 every other day.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#17

Post by pchander »

jamii wrote: post #11
zmb_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to services like email, the quality of the user interface is really secondary. The primary concern is the ability to trust that I will remain accessible through the identifier (email address) that I've spread around to many people and places over the years. Given Google's service shutdowns, dropped support for protocols, and the horror stories of seemingly accidental account closures with no recourse, I…

Register your own domain and sign up for the free version of google apps. I have a gmail inbox for jamie@scattered-thoughts.net but if I need to change services I just move the MX record and upload my backups elsewhere.

The free version of google apps has been discontinued. New users can no longer sign up for it.

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#18

Post by patrickaljord »

Svip wrote: post #14
patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

I don't find the argument that 'if the other guys are jerks, then I too can be a jerk' to be an argument that makes me see anyone in a more favourable light. I thought Google wanted to avoid being Microsoft and Apple, with their unofficial motto, 'don't be evil'. I prefer it when someone showcases their willingness to be 'the nicer guy' by opening up while the others are closing down. Like allowing to export your GMa…

It's not about being jerks too, it's about being able to compete. They can't compete by giving away free stuff to competition when the competition refuses to do the same which gives the competition an unfair advantage (in this case, MS customers being able to use both gtalk and skype inside of outlook but Google customers being unable to run skype inside gmail, this makes people just want to use outlook as it provides more than gmail thanks to MS unwillingness to open skype, see the difference?).

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#19

Post by patrickaljord »

Nux wrote: post #10
patrickaljord wrote: post #7

Google still support XMPP, it's just that it's not federated (edit: according to 0x006A, it still is so they may just be blocking Microsoft). It's been federated for years though but what was the effect of that? Has Microsoft made MSN messenger interoperable, have they done so with Skype? Have Yahoo? How about Facebook? Thing is, as Larry said, they support open messaging but why should they do so with companies that…

It's not about Yahoo and other big players. The edge GTalk had was it was capable of talking to my server and to my friends' servers. Now that edge is gone, but it's really not needed any more, they have enough mass to not care.

This is exactly about Skype, Yahoo and others. Only a handful geeks and sysadmins use Gtalk as an XMPP relay to talk to. Losing these few edge cases has no impact at all on Google, however, MS and Yahoo being able to have an unfair advantage does have impact on Google (and by unfair advantage, I mean MS and Yahoo being able to talk to Gtalk but Gtalk not being able to talk to Skype and Yahoo Messenger).

Re: Google drops XMPP support

#20

Post by fdr_cs »

josteink wrote: post #13

The irony of this coming from Microsoft, a company which has never had a single mainstream XMPP-based product and owner of Skype, which has sent Cease and Desist letters to people creating Skype-XMPP bridges, is not lost on me. That said, if Google keeps locking down all their former open products/platforms, I will be fleeing ship. If Hangouts (which replaces Gtalk) drops XMPP support, I see no reason to keep using i…

The sad part is that you will, and some more people will to, but, the mass, will not, because they don't care. If they did, they would not accept ms closed format instead of odt, they would not accept facebook, and would w3c would not create drm extensions as 'open standars' . That's what's sad.
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