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The Three Kinds of Laziness

sub.garrytan.com

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Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#111

Post by kinleyd »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #104
WalterSear wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This position takes quite a reactionary view of mental health. If you have PTSD, it doesn't work like that. If you have schizophrenia, it doesn't work like that. If you have BPD, it doesn't work like that. If you have ADDHD, it doesn't work like that. These are all known mental health issues, with physiological markers, but ultimately they are aspects of human mentality that are present in everyone. So, to ignore the…

Yeah, be wary of anything that is basically code for "stop being such a crybaby".

Are there times when it's helpful to say "stop being such a crybaby"? You betcha! That's the only way to move away from over indulgence in our selves, a decidedly big problem in this day and age.

Is anyone saying "stop being such a crybaby" is the solution for all problems? No way. And certainly not the Buddhist way.

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#112

Post by kinleyd »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #103
kinleyd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Buddhism "the very real issues of fear, discouragement and depression", and indeed the entire range of human emotions, are themselves considered fabrications of the mind that are laid bare and exposed as such through the practice of meditation, mindfulness and rejection of ego. To me that pretty much qualifies as being at the heart though I certainly don't claim any solid expertise.

You can't reject your ego, you can only detach from it. Egolessness and egofullness are two sides of the same coin. And fabrications of the mind, if you will, are all that there is. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Reality and illusion are the same thing. Buddhism is really trying to teach you to honor and understand your thoughts, emotions, and ego as fundamental parts of the human body you live in, not to dest…

My choice of words is intended to convey their meaning in everyday parlance. If I seek egolessness over egofullness, is that not a rejection of the latter over the former in everyday parlance?

As you have correctly stated, Buddhism is not about escaping from life but meeting it head on. I don't think I've said anything that would suggest I'm for escaping.

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#113

Post by eseehausen »

davidroberts wrote: post #13

How about the fourth kind of lazyness--not knowing what the hell to do out of the many choices available, so you sit around hoping the right choice will make itself obvious. It can turn into a very long wait.

"Alas", said the mouse, "the whole world is growing smaller every day. At the beginning it was so big that I was afraid, I kept running and running, and I was glad when I saw walls far away to the right and left, but these long walls have narrowed so quickly that I am in the last chamber already, and there in the corner stands the trap that I must run into."

"You only need to change your direction," said the cat, and ate it up.

-- Franz Kafka, A Little Fable

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Little_Fable)

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#114

Post by throwaway1980 »

kinleyd wrote: post #112
throwaway1980 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't reject your ego, you can only detach from it. Egolessness and egofullness are two sides of the same coin. And fabrications of the mind, if you will, are all that there is. Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Reality and illusion are the same thing. Buddhism is really trying to teach you to honor and understand your thoughts, emotions, and ego as fundamental parts of the human body you live in, not to dest…

My choice of words is intended to convey their meaning in everyday parlance. If I seek egolessness over egofullness, is that not a rejection of the latter over the former in everyday parlance? As you have correctly stated, Buddhism is not about escaping from life but meeting it head on. I don't think I've said anything that would suggest I'm for escaping.

Things which are polar opposites are actually identical, in this case 0% ego and 100% ego, because 0% ego is all about how spiritually pure you are, a.k.a. 100% ego. I'm sure you've met some of the seemingly enlightened meditators I'm talking about. Buddhism teaches you to deal with this paradox or duality and others like it by seeking the middle road. Some ego is good, not too much, not too little. That's all I was reacting to, I probably could've been nicer about it.

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#115

Post by throwaway1980 »

kinleyd wrote: post #111
throwaway1980 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, be wary of anything that is basically code for "stop being such a crybaby".

Are there times when it's helpful to say "stop being such a crybaby"? You betcha! That's the only way to move away from over indulgence in our selves, a decidedly big problem in this day and age. Is anyone saying "stop being such a crybaby" is the solution for all problems? No way. And certainly not the Buddhist way.

Do you have a specific example where "stop being such a crybaby" is a good thing to say?

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#116

Post by kinleyd »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #114
kinleyd wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My choice of words is intended to convey their meaning in everyday parlance. If I seek egolessness over egofullness, is that not a rejection of the latter over the former in everyday parlance? As you have correctly stated, Buddhism is not about escaping from life but meeting it head on. I don't think I've said anything that would suggest I'm for escaping.

Things which are polar opposites are actually identical, in this case 0% ego and 100% ego, because 0% ego is all about how spiritually pure you are, a.k.a. 100% ego. I'm sure you've met some of the seemingly enlightened meditators I'm talking about. Buddhism teaches you to deal with this paradox or duality and others like it by seeking the middle road. Some ego is good, not too much, not too little. That's all I was…

"That's all I was reacting to, I probably could've been nicer about it." Not at all, you were nice enough. :)

Yes going beyond the everyday meaning of the words we use, I agree with you fully. I'm just a beginner on the path, full of the fabrications and paradoxes we all live with, and I'm really looking forward to having them all blown away, or more likely - dissolved - as I dive deeper into it. Ah, aspiration!

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#117

Post by Ntrails »

hkmurakami wrote: post #58
obviouslygreen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, the direction we're heading in doesn't require him in a development role (we're both programmers, but that's more my specialty, and he's better with clients). Hopefully, by the time it gets to that point, programming won't be a concern of his: Either our business will have gone far enough that he's entirely done with development or the business will be done and he'll be looking for consultation-only or t…

I've found that I have this flinch/flashback reaction every time I see cyclists on the road now (and since I live in Silicon Valley where there are many avid cyclists, this is many times a day). I wonder what kind of mental hurdles I'll have to overcome when getting on the bike again :(

I find this really interesting. I have had 2 pretty serious motorbike accidents (a bus and a tractor. Poor choice of targets I admit). I was lucky to get away with nothing more than broken bones - albeit a fair few of those.

I remember getting back on the bike after the first one, and having worked myself up about it for a little while, the only thing I really remember was how amazing it felt to be 'free' again.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the anticipation of the thing was much much worse than the thing itself. Keep to a relatively safe environment, and let yourself remember why you loved biking in the first place.

NB. Purely anecdotal, I have no doubt that my experience of "getting back on the bike" is different to many others. Just don't convince yourself it's an impossibility.

PS. (I don't have a motorbike anymore, though I plan to buy one again at some point. I have had a little ride since the second - just no money to purchase a bike of my own)

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#118

Post by Paul_D_Santana »

alanfalcon wrote: post #59
oblique63 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about this stance has always bothered me. I don't know if it's just me, but I have always just seen this as condescending because 'having a choice' has always been blatantly obvious to me. I will immediately take that back and apologize if a majority of people really don't realize this, but so far it has always seemed like most people give rather 'meh' reactions to these sorts of responses because you're no…

"Just do it"/"Snap out of it" is exactly the key that I've used to get going whenever I've stalled in life. Heck, it's the key I used back in Jr. High when I was an average runner and decided that today I wanted to win the race (literally, mid-race, I started running faster, actually pushing off the ground and propelling myself forward rather than going through the running motions as I had previously in my life—obvio…

Excellent comment.

Thank you for this.

I'll keep this in mind next time I'm losing steam through a particularly tough CrossFit WOD.

"Today, I want to win." Amazing. Thank you. +1

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#119

Post by jasonlotito »

qu4z-2 wrote: post #108
jasonlotito wrote: post #61

The reason why quips like this are dangerous is that people will assume that because of who Garry Tan is, they'll take his word for it. Simply put, this is wrong. There are not three kinds of laziness. Better, it's wrong to assume that your laziness and inability to act is one of those three types mentioned. As someone who was recently diagnosed with ADHD and OCD, I can assure you, reflecting doesn't solve anything.…

I'd disagree that "reflect on death" is a meaningless platitude. It's a definite, actionable step. Whether it helps you or not is a different story, and really only you can find that out. In short, it's concrete advice, though whether good or bad I can't judge.

It's a meaningless platitude.

> it's concrete advice

No, it's not. Your inability to defined whether it's good or bad advice, whether it's helpful or not, does not make it concrete.

It makes it a platitude. Oh shit, I reflected on death. Woohoo.

Now what?

Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness

#120

Post by drumdance »

WalterSear wrote: post #53
drumdance wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "choice to do" is located in the brain. If the brain is malfunctioning this choice can be very difficult. People with severe depression, anxiety, OCD often have malfunctioning brains. In my case depression usually manifests as extreme fatigue coupled with disinterest in everything. Choosing to do anything is very difficult if nothing has meaning.

What have you found that helps?

I've tried various medications over the years. The best one for me was Zoloft, which also helped my sister.

More recently I've been taking a nutrition based approach. I went off Zoloft in January, had an episode in late March/early April, then went to see a nutritional therapist. It seems to be working so far.

In my case, though, I was also diagnosed with adrenal fatigue a couple years ago and have been taking supplements to help with that.

Adrenal fatigue is a controversial diagnosis (some people think it's a made-up "disease") but a saliva test indicated I had low cortisol in the morning, which made it very difficult for me to get going before noon. The supplements helped with that even after I weened myself off caffeine.

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