> "The antidote to the first kind of laziness— only wanting to eat and sleep— is to reflect on death and the impermanent nature of everything." No, the antidote is boredom. Only eating and sleeping is boring .
Reflecting on death is boring.
The Three Kinds of Laziness
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Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#22I quite enjoy the first one actually. I mean, what good is it to do anything if we are just going to die? Eat good, sleep good, digest in the middle good. Very nice.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#23I was hoping for a mention of the useful programmer's type of laziness. The laziness that leads to DRY and building tools that build your tools. I feel like more could be said on that topic, how that sort of laziness relates to the others.
"DRY and building tools that build your tools"
Are those bad? It sounds like you might have learned a hard lesson, and I'd be curious to hear more.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#24For all the people who seem to find buddhist philosophy uplifting and empowering, I've never been able to see it as anything but deeply depressing. "Not doing anything with your life? Think about death and that'll fix it." ... I don't see it.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#25I cannot recommend the book mentioned in this post enough for anyone interested in the intersection between science/spirituality.
I found it challenged many assumptions held by my younger self who was a self-admitted atheist and believed in the ability of Science (in my limited understanding thereof) to explain everything.
I'm not saying that all the arguments presented therein are correct, but I found them quite suitable to rock my world-view.
Then again, "when the student is ready, the Guru will present himself" (a quote from my master).
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#26I was hoping for a mention of the useful programmer's type of laziness. The laziness that leads to DRY and building tools that build your tools. I feel like more could be said on that topic, how that sort of laziness relates to the others.
"DRY and building tools that build your tools" Are those bad? It sounds like you might have learned a hard lesson, and I'd be curious to hear more.
No, sorry, you must've misread me. The article painted laziness in a negative light, but in my experience listening to it mostly yields positive results. If I find myself getting bored and lazy while coding, that to me is intolerable, and I'll do whatever to make it more interesting. To me laziness breeds creativity. I've never experienced the dynamics in the article.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#27This simplistic 'snap out of it' ideology belies and belittles the very real issues of fear, discouragement and depression that underly much of what people berate themselves over as 'laziness'.
But "snap out of it" is exactly it. The person must make the choice to do , regardless of any array of fears, disabilities, circumstances, or excuses. No matter how real the issues, it still is a matter of choice. Skirting death can clarify this. Do or do not. There is no try.
Something about this stance has always bothered me. I don't know if it's just me, but I have always just seen this as condescending because 'having a choice' has always been blatantly obvious to me. I will immediately take that back and apologize if a majority of people really don't realize this, but so far it has always seemed like most people give rather 'meh' reactions to these sorts of responses because you're not providing them with any new information -- which is exactly my gripe. In my opinion, saying "Hey! it's all about making a choice, so just make it already!" is not a valid solution strategy imo; it is barely a rosy incomplete pseudocode algorithm -- not something actionable/reproducible. I really strongly feel that anything that is going to be conveyed with a tone of "Hey, I just gave you a solution!" should be backed up with an actionable mechanism/solution. But that's probably just me...
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#28For all the people who seem to find buddhist philosophy uplifting and empowering, I've never been able to see it as anything but deeply depressing. "Not doing anything with your life? Think about death and that'll fix it." ... I don't see it.
I suggest you see Steve Jobs' Stanford Commencement Speech (2005): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHWUCX6osgM.
The part which conveys this idea beautifully is this:
"Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important tool I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life. Because almost everything — all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure - these things just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart"
Basically, If we deeply[1] accept/realise that we are transient beings (which requires significant reflection given that we all secretly act as though we are immortal, though we may intellectual comprehend that we are not), one may more clearly distinguish between what is important in life and what is superficial.
A definition of the Spiritual Path which appeals to me: "Nitya anitya viveka vichara" -- "the ability to discriminate between the eternal and the ephemeral" [2]
[1] As an inherent and basic measure from which all action emanates
[2] I would be willing to delve into that a bit deeper should anyone be interested.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
But "snap out of it" is exactly it. The person must make the choice to do , regardless of any array of fears, disabilities, circumstances, or excuses. No matter how real the issues, it still is a matter of choice. Skirting death can clarify this. Do or do not. There is no try.
Something about this stance has always bothered me. I don't know if it's just me, but I have always just seen this as condescending because 'having a choice' has always been blatantly obvious to me. I will immediately take that back and apologize if a majority of people really don't realize this, but so far it has always seemed like most people give rather 'meh' reactions to these sorts of responses because you're no…
If you're trying to learn how to walk, what's more helpful: learning the mechanics of how you walk & why we're physically capable of doing it or telling you to just start putting one foot in front of the other.
If you want to do something (anything), you can break down actionable mechanisms all you want, but at some point it has to move from theoretical into action.
It's tougher with this stuff (lazyness) because it's all in your head - it's less physical - so it seems like you could hypothetically break something down into a million actionable steps - so people do and keep wondering why it never leads to action. That's the very trap you have to escape in order to DO something.
I can tell you all the mechanics in the world on how you're supposed to walk, but until you put one foot in front of the other, you'll never be able to learn. That's not condescending at all - it's just the process of learning. All the knowledge in the world won't help someone who's not willing to take that step.
Re: The Three Kinds of Laziness
#30I imagine there's some fairly serious miscommunication going on in quoting the fella in a context of general advice about laziness. A philosophy that tends to eschew materialism does not map well onto motivational speaking.
- I tried thinking about death, but it turned out nothing was really essential without desire and thus it didn't serve to get me desire.
- I tried thinking about the benefits of something I didn't believe I could do, but since I didn't believe I could do it I just felt depressed.
- Just drop everything and get down to what gives life meaning - meh, unless you're prepared to sacrifice an awful lot it can be difficult to just drop everything.
Buddhist philosophy is about... well, it's more about exploring consciousness and letting the experience of that change the way you relate to the world. If you're looking for something to change what sort of person you are, this may be an awfully long road for something that, at best, seems to touch on what you're interested in as a side effect. May perhaps be better off looking at research into akrasia/depression.