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Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

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Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#31

Post by tezza »

cstross wrote: post #4

You won't get that free education at Cambridge any more; it'll set you back £9000 in tuition fees every year, because successive British governments deliberately copied the US system. It is to weep ...

? I went to Uni in Oz in 1995. We had then the exact system the English just put in place ( called HECS )

Students pay nothing up front... Not a penny. And you pay nothing until you get a job. Even when you have a job the repayment is tiny ; esp in relation to to other taxes like fair dinkum Income Tax

How is this a bad thing ? Tax payers were nice to me to provide me the loan in the first place, and were nice to let me pay it back at my own pace.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#32

Post by davidism »

jaxbot wrote: post #11

I'm class of '13 for grade school, entering college this fall at a state university. I've been programming since I was 8, and from what I can tell, my self-teaching has put me at a level above people fresh out of school with a flashy degree that says "hire me." I'm not good with words, but my point is this. I find it terribly concerning that I'm paying $50k to go to a school to learn something I already know, and kno…

Six years ago, I felt similar to you coming out of high school. I had been programming for a long time, picking up whatever interested me. I was going to UCSD for Computer Science, and I already knew so much. There are a few points I'd like you to consider, though.

I didn't really know what to expect other than, "UCSD's CS program is ranked 6th in the nation." So I considered it an opportunity to learn even more, not just to prove what I already know. I looked forward to a fresh start in a new area, learning from people who obviously were very intelligent.

When I first took mandatory introductory classes, I thought, "This is so easy, I've been doing this forever." In high school though, few shared my interests at all. Here, I could make a study group and tutor others, and as some saying goes, "You can learn more by teaching."

When I finally got to upper-division classes, I saw yet another opportunity for growth. I knew what I wanted to focus on, but I also knew that I was smart enough to pick up something I was interested in without taking a class, if I put my mind to it. So I branched out, chose some classes that sounded interesting, even if they weren't directly related to my path. Machine vision, computer architecture, etc. Each one ended up teaching me new ways of looking at problems that I would never have considered if I hadn't taken that class.

University also provided me opportunities to branch out in another important area, social interaction. I joined the Ultimate Frisbee team, giving me a physical activity, new friends, and access to parties, things I never even tried in high school. I joined the student council (as the web designer) and gained insight into how bureaucracy worked.

My advice to you is this. Treat everything as an opportunity, perhaps a challenge to do something difficult, or something new, or something different. Working in the real world, I can say it would be much harder to find these opportunities with a full time job. University will prepare you for the real world in ways you would never expect, but only if you take an active role in that preparation.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#33

Post by spiritplumber »

mikegioia wrote: post #23
michaelochurch wrote: post #15

It's better to understand this as an extortion dynamic than a single conspiracy. Mafia is a good analogy. There is no "Mafia" (except for werewolves, if anyone gets the allusion). There are various crime families and connections between them are loose to nonexistent. "Mafia" is a term people make up to describe what are actually a heterogeneous set of people who just happen to compete in such a way that they get the…

Obviously Avenue 1 is the best outcome, but what happens if those in control simply change the rules? Even if you can outperform them, you're not going to win if the rules keep getting changed. By that I mean, even if you could come up with a new wireless technology 100x faster and 100x cheaper, what can you do if the powers-that-be pass legislation making it illegal?

Make the law irrelevant by massive deployment -- see bittorrent, for example.

At some point, all legislators shouting obsolescencies from their perches accomplishes is to make them less and less relevant.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#34

Post by wheaties »

Alex3917 wrote: post #18

This article is completely wrong. The basic claim of the article is that according to the College Board, the amount students actually spend to attend college has increased 300% over the last 30 years. Is this actual true? College Board does track the amount students spend, they call this statistic net sticker price -- that is, sticker price minus all grants, scholarships, and tax credits. However, they only track net…

And this is exactly why information like this never makes it to these types of arguments. It totally refutes the majority of the claims made. I say majority because unfortunately there are a number of very needy people who get denied access to the best institutions due to financial considerations instead of scholastic aptitude.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#36

Post by irrationalidiom »

jaxbot wrote: post #24
sunsu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually are as good as you say you are, then don't go. Spend the time getting real work experience.

I consider myself pretty good; I honestly have no baseline, but I've spent several years working with PHP, HTML5, JavaScript, I've learned Node.js, and I've built several working prototype projects over my high school years. They're clean, follow standards, and have been great learning experiences for me (trial and error beats lectures, for me). This being said, I have a bad feeling that my portfolio won't outweigh a…

> I consider myself pretty good; I honestly have no baseline...

This is your only blocker to success. I also had a lack of self confidence -- I put this up to the pedestal we put university degrees upon.

By what you've done so far, it sounds like you are better than most 90% of people finishing with Computer Science degrees. There are employers who can see that -- but most recruiters do not (though they do latch on to buzzwords).

Demonstrate your passion and your skill and you'll easily get a job somewhere in the industry.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#37

Post by the7nd »

I graduated high school last year and decided to forgo a $40,000 college to be an entrepreneur.

I regret nothing.

Unfortunately, my parents are doing the silliest thing imaginable and are forcing me to go to college now. I dread reading articles like this four years from now.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#38

Post by Alex3917 »

wheaties wrote: post #34
Alex3917 wrote: post #18

This article is completely wrong. The basic claim of the article is that according to the College Board, the amount students actually spend to attend college has increased 300% over the last 30 years. Is this actual true? College Board does track the amount students spend, they call this statistic net sticker price -- that is, sticker price minus all grants, scholarships, and tax credits. However, they only track net…

And this is exactly why information like this never makes it to these types of arguments. It totally refutes the majority of the claims made. I say majority because unfortunately there are a number of very needy people who get denied access to the best institutions due to financial considerations instead of scholastic aptitude.

"Unfortunately there are a number of very needy people who get denied access to the best institutions due to financial considerations instead of scholastic aptitude."

Yes but the article is still completely wrong. They're making a very specific claim that on average students pay X, when in fact that's not true. Of course there are lots of cases where a person isn't able to get student loans or grants because their parents are wealthy but they're also highly abusive or whatever, but that doesn't have anything to do with what the article is claiming.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#39

Post by mikegioia »

spiritplumber wrote: post #33
mikegioia wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously Avenue 1 is the best outcome, but what happens if those in control simply change the rules? Even if you can outperform them, you're not going to win if the rules keep getting changed. By that I mean, even if you could come up with a new wireless technology 100x faster and 100x cheaper, what can you do if the powers-that-be pass legislation making it illegal?

Make the law irrelevant by massive deployment -- see bittorrent, for example. At some point, all legislators shouting obsolescencies from their perches accomplishes is to make them less and less relevant.

I just hope you're right. I honestly don't think we've seen the US Gov flex their muscles on bittorrent yet (not to suggest there's anything they can do).

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#40

Post by nano_o »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15

It's better to understand this as an extortion dynamic than a single conspiracy. Mafia is a good analogy. There is no "Mafia" (except for werewolves, if anyone gets the allusion). There are various crime families and connections between them are loose to nonexistent. "Mafia" is a term people make up to describe what are actually a heterogeneous set of people who just happen to compete in such a way that they get the…

I like your analysis, but why throw the 4 million estimate on the number of people killed in your Avenue 2 scenario? To give a number like that for such a speculative scenario seems ridiculous to me.
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