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Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

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Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#21

Post by TDL »

jaxbot wrote: post #11

I'm class of '13 for grade school, entering college this fall at a state university. I've been programming since I was 8, and from what I can tell, my self-teaching has put me at a level above people fresh out of school with a flashy degree that says "hire me." I'm not good with words, but my point is this. I find it terribly concerning that I'm paying $50k to go to a school to learn something I already know, and kno…

I wouldn't be so critical about your peers, but that comes with your age. Also, you seem to be fairly good with words. Look at the next several years as an opportunity and attempt to extract as much value as you can (but do so in the most time efficient manner as possible.) Also, don't get to sucked in to the party scene, it's over-rated.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#23

Post by mikegioia »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15

It's better to understand this as an extortion dynamic than a single conspiracy. Mafia is a good analogy. There is no "Mafia" (except for werewolves, if anyone gets the allusion). There are various crime families and connections between them are loose to nonexistent. "Mafia" is a term people make up to describe what are actually a heterogeneous set of people who just happen to compete in such a way that they get the…

Obviously Avenue 1 is the best outcome, but what happens if those in control simply change the rules? Even if you can outperform them, you're not going to win if the rules keep getting changed.

By that I mean, even if you could come up with a new wireless technology 100x faster and 100x cheaper, what can you do if the powers-that-be pass legislation making it illegal?

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#24

Post by jaxbot »

sunsu wrote: post #19
jaxbot wrote: post #11

I'm class of '13 for grade school, entering college this fall at a state university. I've been programming since I was 8, and from what I can tell, my self-teaching has put me at a level above people fresh out of school with a flashy degree that says "hire me." I'm not good with words, but my point is this. I find it terribly concerning that I'm paying $50k to go to a school to learn something I already know, and kno…

If you actually are as good as you say you are, then don't go. Spend the time getting real work experience.

I consider myself pretty good; I honestly have no baseline, but I've spent several years working with PHP, HTML5, JavaScript, I've learned Node.js, and I've built several working prototype projects over my high school years. They're clean, follow standards, and have been great learning experiences for me (trial and error beats lectures, for me).

This being said, I have a bad feeling that my portfolio won't outweigh a degree. I don't know why degrees are valued more than actual knowledge, but that seems to be what the data shows.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#25

Post by JeffJenkins »

At the University of Waterloo where I went we had a co-op program where people would get (usually) reasonably well paid internships. We switched between work and school every 4 months, so when you were done you had a 4-year degree and 2 years of work experience.

This both drastically increased the value of the degree—it was very common to end up getting a job in one of the places you did a co-op term—and gave you some money to help cover your costs for each upcoming school term. It also helps that Canada subsidizes its universities, but I still would have had 30k in tuition alone if it weren't for co-op. As it was I left with ~13k in debt and I had lived reasonably comfortably and chosen to never work while I was in school.

I really don't understand why co-op hasn't been adopted almost universally. It's hugely beneficial to all parties.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#26

Post by sid6376 »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15

It's better to understand this as an extortion dynamic than a single conspiracy. Mafia is a good analogy. There is no "Mafia" (except for werewolves, if anyone gets the allusion). There are various crime families and connections between them are loose to nonexistent. "Mafia" is a term people make up to describe what are actually a heterogeneous set of people who just happen to compete in such a way that they get the…

Why do you think once "we level up on technology and education and outperform these assholes", we will not become assholes ourselves? Tangentially related, but this[1] is one of my favorite articles from Less Wrong. A quote from that article "The young revolutionary's belief is honest. There will be no betraying catch in his throat, as he explains why the tribe is doomed at the hands of the old and corrupt, unless he is given power to set things right. Not even subconsciously does he think, 'And then, once I obtain power, I will strangely begin to resemble that old corrupt guard, abusing my power to increase my inclusive genetic fitness.'"

[1] http://lesswrong.com/lw/uu/why_does_power_corrupt/

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#27

Post by mikegioia »

codva wrote: post #16

I really have little sympathy for somebody that attends an out of state or private school and racks up $100K in college debt getting a sociology degree. My son just finished up his freshman year as a history major. However, he is going to the perfectly good public school located 15 minutes from home, and living at home. It's costing me $5000 a semester in tuition, which isn't chump change, but isn't going to bankrupt…

I agree with you, but you're neglecting to realize how little some people understand about the college process.

My dad and I we're definitely in the upper quartile in the college application process, yet even I got stuck with 100k of debt from a private university. Why didn't I go to a public college instead? Who knows! All I can say is that I would have done it differently back then (graduated 2007).

Now imagine you're NOT that informed of the college process, your school's guidance counselor doesn't know anything or care, and your parents don't really know anything about it other than the US News top colleges report. You're more than likely going to enroll in an overpriced university more-so out of ignorance than anything else.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#28

Post by TDL »

michaelochurch wrote: post #15

It's better to understand this as an extortion dynamic than a single conspiracy. Mafia is a good analogy. There is no "Mafia" (except for werewolves, if anyone gets the allusion). There are various crime families and connections between them are loose to nonexistent. "Mafia" is a term people make up to describe what are actually a heterogeneous set of people who just happen to compete in such a way that they get the…

"we just build things that are superior to what they can come up with..."

Disintermediation is the best long term strategy here, I agree entirely on this point.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#29

Post by jaxbot »

TDL wrote: post #21
jaxbot wrote: post #11

I'm class of '13 for grade school, entering college this fall at a state university. I've been programming since I was 8, and from what I can tell, my self-teaching has put me at a level above people fresh out of school with a flashy degree that says "hire me." I'm not good with words, but my point is this. I find it terribly concerning that I'm paying $50k to go to a school to learn something I already know, and kno…

I wouldn't be so critical about your peers, but that comes with your age. Also, you seem to be fairly good with words. Look at the next several years as an opportunity and attempt to extract as much value as you can (but do so in the most time efficient manner as possible.) Also, don't get to sucked in to the party scene, it's over-rated.

You're right, I was wrong to be so critical. I suppose my point comes from a percentage, perhaps small, perhaps large, of free riders in the industry. But that comes with every career.

My life plan as of right now is to go off to college as planned, but focus time on both schooling and working on my real world experiences. I'm still too young and naive; hopefully stress and general education can fix some of that.

About parties, though: I've never been the type. I don't have time for much leisure, and had to give up TV/games to focus on current school and hobbies. Partying doesn't sound overrated, just sad.

Re: Dear Class of ’13: You’ve been scammed

#30

Post by irrationalidiom »

sunsu wrote: post #19
jaxbot wrote: post #11

I'm class of '13 for grade school, entering college this fall at a state university. I've been programming since I was 8, and from what I can tell, my self-teaching has put me at a level above people fresh out of school with a flashy degree that says "hire me." I'm not good with words, but my point is this. I find it terribly concerning that I'm paying $50k to go to a school to learn something I already know, and kno…

If you actually are as good as you say you are, then don't go. Spend the time getting real work experience.

I second this. Take the first professional job you can get (and you can start freelancing and putting stuff on github to help you get that job), you can use that to bounce into a higher paying job after a year or two. Once you're inside the industry people won't bother looking at your piece of paper or lack thereof.

I spent 3 years at University doing a completely non software related degree, gave it up, was doing feelance web design, then luckily managed to get into a professional software developer position (for relatively low pay). After 16 months I moved into another job with a 40% pay increase and much better environment/conditions.

I've never looked back.

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