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Why I have left Samsung

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Re: Why I have left Samsung

#91
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time (~5/month) I hear the "managers are idiots" rant I start to wonder, how is it possible that all the smart people: 1. aren't managers. 2. aren't able to convince the "idiots". I'm also curious why smart people become idiots when they're promoted. Come on. Managing is hard and definitely looks different depending on your position. To make it even more "funny" I can tell you that "employees are idiots" is a f…

>> Every time (~5/month) I hear the "managers are idiots" rant I start to wonder, how is it possible that all the smart people: 1. aren't managers. 2. aren't able to convince the "idiots". I guess you must have worked for completely different companies than I did, because in my experience it's not the smartest people who work their way up into management, just the loudest ones that don't have any specific skill that…

I really thought you were my coworker. He has been pushing for me to attack a niche at the company in spare time for months. 'Work on interesting things and move further away from meetings and people in general. You will lock yourself into being "that person."'

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whining? Where? Or was that an attempt at irony? Child? I would call it "rather wise for that age". Have you ever worked on a farm, by the way? Unprofessional? Define "professional", then.

I suppose that I could argue that complaining about an incompetent former employer does literally no good for one's future career prospects. It can only hurt you, and that lack of foresight may be considered "unprofessional" by not considering your own best interests. (some companies won't care about his rant against Samsung, but some other bigcos will. No company will actually give him bonus points for his public co…

He didn't say they're incompetent, to the contrary, just that he didn't like it, and that being directly involved in something that makes more sense to him is more fulfilling to him in the meantime. So yes, he won't be hired by people without reading comprehension who snoop around on blogs, but what makes you think those are particularly productive anyway? And how is this relevant for someone looking to start his own business? And even if that wasn't the case, how are only "bigcos" viable employers, and how can you equate them with "all companies" on top of that?

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#93
post #23

What have you been expecting as Junior Developer? Especially in large company, there are lots of smarter people there, you are just starting. Sometimes people need to be a little more humble, than thinking that on start they will be doing new android features right away. I've worked for similar big cos as junior, did not like it also and runned away. But someone has to do the dishes...

Any technology company that still uses Active-X for anything should be avoided, no matter what.

Believe me there are far worse things in big co than Active-X. You would be surprised how Excel can be abused...

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#94
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he will come back full circle after he starts his own company and realizes there's a bunch of bullshit and stuff that he needs to swallow. He yarns about how at least in his job at Samsung he had a good income and he understands that everyone, yes absolutely everyone has to start from the bottom and fight their way to the top positions/companies. Crap, with a foot already in Samsung, he could have stay 2 years an…

I tend to agree with you. Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative . Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something…

I used to be like that (no really I did): I started programming when I was about 7 years old (LOGO, then Basic, then C). I finished my degree in Software Engineering with the highest grade of all my peers and with honours. About one year before graduation I started working at a software company (doing some rent-a-car systems and tourism web-dev) but inside me thinking I was so-much-better than what I was doing (programming .NET v1). So I took off and went to the UK to do a Master and a PhD.

Fastforward 8 years (4 of Masters/PhD, 4 of a PostDoc), I am 'back' as a 'simple' software engineer in a great company doing what I realized I love: programming software. I have been one year now, learning the company processess and their domain, meeting the people. And after this year, I've got a good career path laid in front of me with the opportunity to sometime become a tech lead.

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#95
post #10

It's not a question of scale, it's a question of management. Companies like Samsung, others and etc are managed by idiots. Pure and simple. Suit wearing, non-technical morons. Congratulations on your new job, exercise, fresh air and freshly picked berries and vegetables. Sounds pretty decent compared to sitting in front of a screen slaving for knock-off phones with shitty vendored junk. Seeing the company you work fo…

Every time (~5/month) I hear the "managers are idiots" rant I start to wonder, how is it possible that all the smart people: 1. aren't managers. 2. aren't able to convince the "idiots". I'm also curious why smart people become idiots when they're promoted. Come on. Managing is hard and definitely looks different depending on your position. To make it even more "funny" I can tell you that "employees are idiots" is a f…

Every time (~5/month) I hear the "managers are idiots" rant I start to wonder, how is it possible that all the smart people: 1. aren't managers. 2. aren't able to convince the "idiots".

Look, for an analogy, at the theological incompetence seen in many cases of religious colonization ca. 1500-1914. The good priests stayed in the mainland. A lot of idiots were sent to the outposts.

What you have in colonization is the worst people of one society being put over the best of another. That's true even now. Who are the Americans and British who flock to Dubai? People not smart enough to get executive-level positions in their own countries, who want the upper-class lifestyle (that comes from living in a slave state as not-a-slave) but can't get it on their own steam in their own land.

In Managerland/MBAistan, the good ones end up in $5 million per year private equity jobs or running divisions in investment banks. The bad ones get stuck managing nerds (us) and they get really resentful as time goes on. A 40-year-old top-notch programmer is a badass. A 40-year-old Partner at Sequoia is also a badass. A 40-year-old who manages a team of 5 programmers on some project defined by an executive two levels above him (i.e. he has no creative control either) is probably a bitter, terminal middle manager.

The thing is that the best technologists don't want to be managers. They want to be great at their jobs. They don't climb the ranks at all. Managers, on the other hand, always want to climb, and the capable ones do. Top technologists end up answering to people in Managerland who never got out of middle-management and are bitter/resentful.

If we answered to the $5 million per year top-notch businessmen who can actually sell and motivate people, maybe we'd like our jobs better. Or maybe they'd be even bigger assholes; who knows. I think the Colonization Effect (technologists being the colonized people, Managerland being the father country) is worth looking into, though. It might explain why technology management is so terrible. We end up answering to the ones who failed because they don't have any social skills, and who therefore suck at finding a way to motivate us to do the work.

The quality of people who do sales in an investment bank is just much higher-- they can actually convince people to do what they want instead of ordering them around-- than that of the people who manage software engineers in a traditional "tech" company. I've seen both.

To make it even more "funny" I can tell you that "employees are idiots" is a frequent manager's rant too.

The more intelligent managers don't complain that employees are "idiots". It's more that low-level employees don't care enough. They don't have any authority or autonomy so they're not conscientious. The mismatch comes from the fact that the manager obviously believes the beauty contest is worth playing (he played it and won) while his underlings are often disengaged outright.

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whining? Where? Or was that an attempt at irony? Child? I would call it "rather wise for that age". Have you ever worked on a farm, by the way? Unprofessional? Define "professional", then.

I suppose that I could argue that complaining about an incompetent former employer does literally no good for one's future career prospects. It can only hurt you, and that lack of foresight may be considered "unprofessional" by not considering your own best interests. (some companies won't care about his rant against Samsung, but some other bigcos will. No company will actually give him bonus points for his public co…

There is something to be said for opening discussion about coding practices in large companies. His essay was descriptive. Even if it did hurt his own personal career prospects, having it out there helps the community better understand what is expected at certain jobs. If I were a new CS graduate, this sort of information would be immensely helpful in deciding whether Samsung was right for me. I think that, from a global standpoint, his essay was a good thing. I'm not disagreeing with you, of course -- he may have hurt his job prospects for certain companies, but it sounds like he wouldn't be happy working at such companies anyway, so it seems for the best.

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#97
post #23

What have you been expecting as Junior Developer? Especially in large company, there are lots of smarter people there, you are just starting. Sometimes people need to be a little more humble, than thinking that on start they will be doing new android features right away. I've worked for similar big cos as junior, did not like it also and runned away. But someone has to do the dishes...

I think humility is even more important in a startup than a big co, since being a stubborn arrogant fool doesn't help you respond to reality.

However, the fact that young developers are making such amazing things right now pretty much disproves that "moving up the ladder" is necessary for great software product work in 2013. Times are seriously changing.

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#98
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he will come back full circle after he starts his own company and realizes there's a bunch of bullshit and stuff that he needs to swallow. He yarns about how at least in his job at Samsung he had a good income and he understands that everyone, yes absolutely everyone has to start from the bottom and fight their way to the top positions/companies. Crap, with a foot already in Samsung, he could have stay 2 years an…

I tend to agree with you. Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative . Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something…

Corporations will often test you out in what you consider to be a "crap" job. Why? It's not a test of skill, it's a test of initiative. Without slamming him -- it's his personal choice, after all, and good luck to him -- this is why some people don't advance. They see a position as being "beneath" them when actually they're being watched to see if they can -- on their own -- bring something new to it.

It's a total waste of time to play that game. Why? Because not everyone starts on a crap job. When you apply for transfer after 1.5-2 years, you will be competing against people had real work, and you won't be able to get out of your second-class citizen status. You might get a slightly better project, but you'll never get an actually good one.

Were it not for the job-hopper stigma imposed by Boomersaurs holding the reality of the new economy against us (as if we had something to do with it) the most viable thing would be to roll the dice again after 6 months. The only way to get good projects in a company is to start on one (or have a pre-existing personal relationship with the CEO).

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#99

A junior developer quits his job to found a tech company? Really? Unless he has other non-mentioned skills he probably made a very bad decision

What do you think most silicon valley tech entrepreneurs are? Senior developers with years of experience?

Re: Why I have left Samsung

#100
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Every time (~5/month) I hear the "managers are idiots" rant I start to wonder, how is it possible that all the smart people: 1. aren't managers. 2. aren't able to convince the "idiots". I guess you must have worked for completely different companies than I did, because in my experience it's not the smartest people who work their way up into management, just the loudest ones that don't have any specific skill that…

"Ability" isn't a uniform stat. There's many factors that comprise our competence. Once of them is technical excellence. Others include sales, politicking (or "managing up"), managing a team, empathy, oratory, etc. The best technical minds don't necessarily want to become suits (I'm going to avoid using the term "managers" since engineering managers are very different from "suits" imo). Even if they become one, they…

Your point about different skill-sets (as well as the one below about replacing "smart" with "technically competent") is a great one. These are things missing from my post. Regarding > "the best athletes aren't always the best coaches" i think that's a very good illustration to whole this discussion. If the most talented athlete benefits from the help of a coach. However the critical part comes when the coach makes a mistake. Should athlete just put whole responsibility on his coach? Just lean back and say "my coach is an idiot and all I can do is to rant about it"? I believe it's a mutual responsibility for both sides to address the issues. If the athlete can't properly express his needs/doubts it's something what he should improve because waiting for the coach to "get smarter" may be a recipe for disaster. Of course the same works the other way too. Now if we replace coach/athlete with manager/employee it's clear where so many problems come from.
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