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Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

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Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#151
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't leave until you've clarified your equity stake and dotted all your Is and crossed all of your Ts. However, you should then cut your losses and get out of there. Half of a job is with whom you work and you've learned a great lesson with 'idiot' detection. I've worked with assholes recently, and they can actually be amazing assets at a company, but about 10 years ago I stopped working with idiots and I haven't lo…

How are you going to make people pay for the clouds? Is this government-sponsored? Otherwise it sounds really cool, I've seen such climate improvement projects before, but I thought they require a huge scale (entire or several countries), can a single company really make a significant impact?

After seeing some downvotes, etc., I'm starting to think you mean a hosting company... Maybe the mention of Nairobi, Kenya made me think of clouds-as-in-water-vapor :)

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#152

I totally relate to this story. I was in an identical position just over a year ago. I spent 6 years co-founding a startup (though because of my age I was never recognised as a founder). I put so many hours into the software, evenings and even some weekends. The codebase was almost a work of art, built for the long term. And the business would have scaled up with the system I had built. The directors however were clu…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#153
"I think my co-founders are idiots, that they fouled up their side of the deal, but I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now."

This is the feeling! I remember this.

Let me be extremely clear here: forget about your time investment. It does not matter. If you don't believe in the company and especially in your business partners, leave NOW. Each day you stay is delaying the next big step in your life that will get you to a better place and a happier life.

I've been there. Did it for years with the wrong partner because I didn't trust my gut and leave early on. I should have. I left after 5 years, abandoned all that work, and I've never made a better decision in my life.

Startups are hard, and they do have their ups and downs, but that is not how a startup is supposed to feel. Get out now.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#154
Here's the best strategy at this point. Talk to the VCs. Thank them for sharing their opinions. They did a good thing that a lot of investors don't do: they gave you an actual rejection, rather than wasting your time with "we just need more information" and indefinite deferral. Knowing nothing about your situation, it still sounds like you ended up meeting some good-apple VCs. Reach out to them and ask if there are any open positions in their portfolio companies that might give you the skills to create a more viable business in the future.

Don't let your co-founders know that you're doing this. They probably see those VCs (for rejecting them) as an enemy. They are, of course, the opposite. They did a really good thing by pushing you away from a bad idea. Not everyone in that world has the courage to reject someone (as opposed to delaying indefinitely, which has the same effect but is less honest). You should reach out to them for general career advice and see what happens.

Regardless of whether the VCs help you, it's time to wrap up your startup. Do any documentation work that's needed, get your specific equity amounts in writing (founders will often get resentful and try to steal your equity if you don't, and you won't get much sympathy from the courts if it's just a verbal agreement; that means you fucked up). Try to leave on good terms so you can keep a good reference, but don't hold high expectations because usually a startup breakup causes one side or the other to burn the bridge outright.

Good luck! This is not an easy thing to do. When you leave as a founder, it feels like defeat-- it's not just changing jobs, but it feels like you're admitting that you don't belong in charge. You can't let that get to you. You made some bad choices-- it sounds like your co-founders were not made of the right stuff-- but you've learned a lot, and now it's time to recover.

If you can get consulting work or a really good salary job (i.e. one that will improve your career, not waste your time) then that is the best way to move forward. I wouldn't recommend trying another startup for a few years. Startup failure is really hard to recover from; you need time and a low-stress environment.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#155
post #133
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. If you've truly lost faith in the founders and business -- which you have -- you should leave now & cut your losses. It's not going to work out, regardless of salary. As for how to make money after you leave -- get a job or find consulting work. Then jump back into starting a business when you're ready again.

Don't leave until you've clarified your equity stake and dotted all your Is and crossed all of your Ts. However, you should then cut your losses and get out of there. Half of a job is with whom you work and you've learned a great lesson with 'idiot' detection. I've worked with assholes recently, and they can actually be amazing assets at a company, but about 10 years ago I stopped working with idiots and I haven't lo…

AdamN, am in Nairobi and would love to chat concerning this. You can ping me on email mokua83ke [at] google's email service.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#156
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't leave until you've clarified your equity stake and dotted all your Is and crossed all of your Ts. However, you should then cut your losses and get out of there. Half of a job is with whom you work and you've learned a great lesson with 'idiot' detection. I've worked with assholes recently, and they can actually be amazing assets at a company, but about 10 years ago I stopped working with idiots and I haven't lo…

How are you going to make people pay for the clouds? Is this government-sponsored? Otherwise it sounds really cool, I've seen such climate improvement projects before, but I thought they require a huge scale (entire or several countries), can a single company really make a significant impact?

If this is a joke, it is well over my head,;-)

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#157

"I think my co-founders are idiots, that they fouled up their side of the deal, but I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now." This is the feeling! I remember this. Let me be extremely clear here: forget about your time investment. It does not matter. If you don't believe in the company and especially in your business partners, leave NOW. Each day you stay is delaying the next big step in y…

Here here. This is good advice. Get out.

When you're happy, you won't regret walking away even if you left a little bit of money left on the table.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#158

This situation is actually very simple, don't let it feel overcomplicated: Tell them you need an actual salary and actual health insurance in the next 30 days. If the venture can pay you to keep at it, that's great. Otherwise you'll have to start looking around for a real job in a couple of weeks. Even the most brick-and-mortar type of businessperson will completely understand this. Stick to your schedule. It will ei…

I've actually been in a very similar situation. I asked for the salary knowing they couldn't pay it and figuring it was my easiest way out without feeling like the bad guy. Hey, I just needed money and they couldn't pay it...Low and behold they unexpectedly accepted my offer. Good news, right? Not really...I wasn't happy, and after getting the salary I felt even more stuck than I was before. Get out while you still can.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#159
"I believe in our product, but I don't believe in our business model." Then tell your business partners that THEY need to fix the business models so THEY can afford to pay YOU.

"I think my co-founders are idiots, that they fouled up their side of the deal," Ask them to give up some of their equity so that you can use it to motivate a replacement candidate.

"but I feel as though I've invested too much time and energy to bail now." Ouch, you're fucked. NEVER EVER let past mistakes ruin your future.

How about making a list of all the things you learned during this venture and a second list of all the things you can do in the future if you sever ties now. That way, if someone asks you in the future, you can explain on a positive note why it was the right thing to go.

However, all of these business projects also involve a lot of luck: I was once working on and off on a project for 3 years and gradually losing faith in the business model. And then all of a sudden, the project was reviewed without my knowledge by a local newspaper. We got a huge spike in traffic, sales started to explode and throughout one week, i was more than rewarded for all the hard work.

Re: Ask HN: I'm lost. Please help

#160

I totally relate to this story. I was in an identical position just over a year ago. I spent 6 years co-founding a startup (though because of my age I was never recognised as a founder). I put so many hours into the software, evenings and even some weekends. The codebase was almost a work of art, built for the long term. And the business would have scaled up with the system I had built. The directors however were clu…

Wow, it sounds like you were outright exploited, while the OP merely has incompetent but non-malicious co-founders. Did you not have a lawyer?
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