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What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

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Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#151

Post by QEDturtles »

icebraining wrote: post #118
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“They open source a browser and an operating system to sell other stuff.” No, those were already open source before Google got involved, so Google didn’t really have a choice.

Uh, no. None of them existed before Google. What did exist were two pieces of infrastructure (Webkit and the Linux kernel), and Google could've used both without open-sourcing the rest of the application, since the licenses allow it: - Webkit is LGPL/BSD, so it can be linked to proprietary code without forcing its redistribution. - The Linux kernel is GPL, but the license has never applied to userspace code, and ever…

Wait... so Android Inc didn't exist for the 2 years between its founding in 2003 and Google's acquisition in 2005?

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#152

Post by rst »

mortehu wrote: post #145
rst wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sourced. That's a reply to a thread based here, which starts by quoting email from Google which says point blank that "the new [hangouts] service will not support XMPP". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714557

From the post you linked: > Your users may use any chat client that supports XMPP. XMPP clients will continue to work as usual with the App Engine XMPP service. > Note that the changes discussed above have no impact on non-Google XMPP clients

But not with the new Hangouts service, which was announced to great ballyhoo in the Google I/O keynote yesterday as their new, general-use chat system for the vast bulk of their userbase. Which is what this whole conversation is about.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#153

Post by dandelany »

andyl wrote: post #113
untog wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, saying that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is "probably Microsoft sponsored astroturf" just makes me picture you with a tin foil hat on your head. Sometimes the truth is a lot simpler than you're thinking it is. You write a lot of posts that are pro-Google. Are you sponsored by Google?!?!?

'Are you sponsored by Google?' I think so. I've been accused of being an 'anti-google astroturfer' before. 'Gosh that's odd', I thought. Then I read the posts written by my accuser. Pro-google, down the line - echoing PR talking points. Normal people don't do this. I do think Google hires PR flacks to post here on HN.

Seems more likely he is just a regular Google employee who supports what they are doing, albeit a bit aggressively. There are many of them on HN. Not sure why either of you are assuming malice here.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#154

Post by cooldeal »

mortehu wrote: post #145
rst wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sourced. That's a reply to a thread based here, which starts by quoting email from Google which says point blank that "the new [hangouts] service will not support XMPP". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714557

From the post you linked: > Your users may use any chat client that supports XMPP. XMPP clients will continue to work as usual with the App Engine XMPP service. > Note that the changes discussed above have no impact on non-Google XMPP clients

Ugh, and someone else states that XMPP will be disabled for users who chose to upgrade to hangouts.

Why this utter confusion over a simple thing after a whole three hour keynote yesterday and today no one seems to have a clue? Communication fail, if you ask me.

Color me skeptical, but there was similar confusion when SMS search stopped working suddenly,and then people realized Google killed it. XMPP support may stay, but I am not going to bet more than 2 bucks on it.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#155

Post by metaphorm »

popee wrote: post #135
icebraining wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. None of them existed before Google. What did exist were two pieces of infrastructure (Webkit and the Linux kernel), and Google could've used both without open-sourcing the rest of the application, since the licenses allow it: - Webkit is LGPL/BSD, so it can be linked to proprietary code without forcing its redistribution. - The Linux kernel is GPL, but the license has never applied to userspace code, and ever…

Google's wet dream is Linux kernel under BSD license.

thats a silly thing to say. BSD licensed Unix already exists. if they wanted to build a proprietary OS on top of it (as Apple did) they would have. the fact that they already decided not to is the entire point here. Google chose GPL Licensed Linux over BSD Licensed Unix. From a technical perspective there's not a whole lot of difference. The license is the more important difference and we already know which they chose.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#156

Post by kyrias »

adrinavarro wrote: post #88
VikingCoder wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, to be clear, Google is supposed to make video chat with groups of people, recording to YouTube, desktop sharing, and Google Docs live editing work with XMPP? Or else they're evil?

I don't care too much about video chat, YouTube, etc, etc… Just about the plain old XMPP/Jabber user-to-user that was the base for Google Talk and that has been around for many years. The ability to talk with users from different providers. That is being open. Without XMPP federation, we're effectively locked into Google. And it's just a matter of time that they drop XMPP altogether and we have to use their own proto…

Considering that they only enabled federation again a little while ago it's not like that's something new.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#157

Post by ajross »

claudius wrote: post #2

Everybody knows that SMTP is old, inefficient (hey, it’s nearly plain-text!), insecure, diversified (so many different servers to choose from!) and generally just bad. Clearly a closed web interface that only runs in Chrome would be much better for everyone! Then people could always be sure with whom they communicate, nobody could hack or social-engineer their way into other accounts, and everyone would have to follo…

Arrgh. Title is total link bait. There is no news about SMTP here. The linked blog post is whining about XMPP, which is not being disabled. Apparently the author is a user of "XMPP Federation" (the ability to link XMPP servers together a-la IRC), which is also not being disabled. But apparently it might be someday, as the new Hangouts stuff won't support it.

So how did we get form "can't talk to your Hangout via an XMPP client" to "Google will disable SMTP"? Really folks, this site used to be better about this stuff...

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#158

Post by cooldeal »

bjustin wrote: post #134
iamshs wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except, Microsoft did not strip ads from the videos. They said yesterday that they will be happy to serve ads if Google lets them access. And please, let the legal departments decide if it is a clear violation or not. Do not take a decision on your own. I think you are the one who is astro-turfing here, if i apply the finger pointing criteria to you too. It is better if you reply to the argument leaving your personal…

Microsoft is flagrantly violating YouTube's terms of service. Saying they would serve ads if YouTube had an API for it is like me using your obviously not public WiFi and saying I would pay for it if you let me.

Comparison fail.

What Google's been saying from 3 years while dragging it's feet is that Windows Phone does not have enough users to make an app for, but now their claim is that so many people are using the Microsoft Youtube App for Windows Phone that it's hurting the content creators. Huh? Why can't they monetize them by making an app and show twice as many ads in it just to spite WP users? No, they won't. They want to disadvantage Windows Phone compared to Android. Vimeo has had a Windows Phone app from a long time, and Google' can't afford to make one? And you believe them?

Why don't they come out with the real reason then, like Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Microsoft, Skype, do about closing down things and eat up the bad press? Why beat around the bush and play delay tactics and hide behind facts? Oh, they want to protect their clean image of being "open" and "do no evil". This is a ploy by Microsoft to force Google to tell the public exactly why they refuse to make a Youtube app and even ban Microsoft from doing so.

How can Windows Phone have so few users that use YouTube that it's not worth monetizing and have so many users that use Microsoft's new app that it's hurting Google and content creator revenue? Why not agree to allow MS to show Google ads and make money since they don't have to spend the money to create the app but can take the profits?

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#160

Post by rietta »

I am not 100% certain I understand the difference between XMPP support and XMPP federation support. I assume though if they are dropping the support to route between chat providers than my websites' Zopim chat widget that I use for live support will no longer be able to talk with my Google Talk and thus I will no longer be able to text chat with customers on my websites through my Android-based smart phone. If so, that's a real bummer.
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