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What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

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Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#141

Post by bjourne »

leephillips wrote: post #99

Google never had SMTP support. They run services that look like and advertise themselves as SMTP but violate the parts of the relevant RFPs that they don't find convenient: http://lee-phillips.org/gmailRewriting/

They are even worse when it comes to IMAP. So if you have a sizable gmail account it is virtually impossible to switch to another client because gmail's labels doesn't at all match how IMAP folders behave. But it is hard to complain about a free service and it's quite possible that they couldn't have implemented all gmails features the way they did if they stuck to the IMAP standard.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#142

Post by popee »

laumars wrote: post #64
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well it's not exactly secure, for one thing. No more or less secure than HTTP/HTTPS. In fact exactly as secure as... >base64 is a method for encoding binary. You cannot send raw binary other ASCII - which is why base64 is used in SMTP. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3030 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2045 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIME#Content-Transfer-Encoding >Actually I have given a long list of reasons every t…

> No more or less secure than HTTP/HTTPS. In fact exactly as secure as... HTTPS is end to end encryption. In the instances that SMTP traffic is encrypted, it's only node to node. So SMTPS is less secure than HTTPS. > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3030 It's still not /the/ standard though, just /a/ standard; and one that's not particularly well supported in my experience. Most of the SMTP servers I've dealt with have…

> But there's absolutely no reason why e-mails shouldn't be real time in the modern world.

You should look at SIP. It's combination of HTTP,SMTP,... and is really great protocol for hackers and creative people. Bad side of SIP is that it's friking huge, but this is because there are lot of extensions (btw even IM is SIP extension).

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#143

Post by Metrop0218 »

icebraining wrote: post #117
recoiledsnake wrote: post #47

Wait, so Google is dropping XMPP support because Outlook.com is supporting it to allow Gtalk users to chat on Outlook.com, so in order to perpetuate the GMail/GTalk lock-in by caging the Gtalk chat users to GMail, they're dropping standards support and killing access to all XMPP clients in existence including non-Microsoft ones? And they announce this right when Microsoft spent all the time and effort to allow Outloo…

trying to lock out millions of Windows Phone users from Youtube by sending a C&D takedown on the app Open browser → type youtube.com. How exactly are they "locked out"? Please stop throwing FUD; whether they should provide API access is a fair discussion, but let's not make stuff up.

Locked out is definitely way too strong of a phrase. "Make it less comfortable to use" is a bit closer to truth

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#144

Post by IgorPartola »

popee wrote: post #135
icebraining wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no. None of them existed before Google. What did exist were two pieces of infrastructure (Webkit and the Linux kernel), and Google could've used both without open-sourcing the rest of the application, since the licenses allow it: - Webkit is LGPL/BSD, so it can be linked to proprietary code without forcing its redistribution. - The Linux kernel is GPL, but the license has never applied to userspace code, and ever…

Google's wet dream is Linux kernel under BSD license.

Really? Why not use a BSD kernel then? And don't say because Linux is so much more advanced: for what Google would use it for, FreeBSD would do just fine.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#145

Post by mortehu »

rst wrote: post #131
untog wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That thread of unsourced speculation, you mean?

It's sourced. That's a reply to a thread based here, which starts by quoting email from Google which says point blank that "the new [hangouts] service will not support XMPP". https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5714557

From the post you linked:

> Your users may use any chat client that supports XMPP. XMPP clients will continue to work as usual with the App Engine XMPP service.

> Note that the changes discussed above have no impact on non-Google XMPP clients

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#146

Post by leoc »

claudius wrote: post #25
gnoway wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than a basic understanding of what it is, I don't know anything about XMPP. What's wrong with it? Or, more specifically, what does it do poorly that other things have eclipsed?

It is federated in such a way that it is sometimes difficult to establish new features, as there are a multitude of servers and clients, which would all have to support said new features for them to stick. Some see that as an advantage, but it definitely doesn’t help ‘innovate’ and re-invent the wheel every other month. GPG encryption, for example, while standardised in XEP-something, is still not really supported in…

But Google, as a wealthy company and the controller of such a big chunk of the XMPP user base, was (maybe uniquely) in a good position to overcome these problems. It could have established a de facto standard set of supported features, and maybe pushed out some code to help clients implement awkward bits of it.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#147

Post by pessimizer »

untog wrote: post #116
andyl wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Are you sponsored by Google?' I think so. I've been accused of being an 'anti-google astroturfer' before. 'Gosh that's odd', I thought. Then I read the posts written by my accuser. Pro-google, down the line - echoing PR talking points. Normal people don't do this. I do think Google hires PR flacks to post here on HN.

That just makes you sound as bad as capo. We live in a world where weird fanboys exist for just about anything, including Google and Microsoft.

Absolutely true, but we also live in a world in which people are paid to do this.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#148

Post by mtgx »

VikingCoder wrote: post #58
recoiledsnake wrote: post #47

Wait, so Google is dropping XMPP support because Outlook.com is supporting it to allow Gtalk users to chat on Outlook.com, so in order to perpetuate the GMail/GTalk lock-in by caging the Gtalk chat users to GMail, they're dropping standards support and killing access to all XMPP clients in existence including non-Microsoft ones? And they announce this right when Microsoft spent all the time and effort to allow Outloo…

So, to be clear, Google is supposed to make video chat with groups of people, recording to YouTube, desktop sharing, and Google Docs live editing work with XMPP? Or else they're evil?

Well I do hope they intend to use WebRTC and WebM for Hangouts soon.

Re: What's next Google? Dropping SMTP support?

#150

Post by jgeorge »

andyl wrote: post #113
untog wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, saying that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is "probably Microsoft sponsored astroturf" just makes me picture you with a tin foil hat on your head. Sometimes the truth is a lot simpler than you're thinking it is. You write a lot of posts that are pro-Google. Are you sponsored by Google?!?!?

'Are you sponsored by Google?' I think so. I've been accused of being an 'anti-google astroturfer' before. 'Gosh that's odd', I thought. Then I read the posts written by my accuser. Pro-google, down the line - echoing PR talking points. Normal people don't do this. I do think Google hires PR flacks to post here on HN.

"hires"? No.

Fanboys work for free.

(From all directions, not just pro-google.)

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