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Where Is .Net Headed?

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Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#51

Post by clark-kent »

smacktoward wrote: post #29
rbanffy wrote: post #21

I had to stop at the "1. The success of Windows Azure" part. Will get back to the article as soon as I stop laughing...

Laugh if you want to, but the point is pretty serious. Azure supposedly racked up more than $1 billion in revenue in 2012 ( http://www.zdnet.com/windows-azure-joins-microsofts-billion-... ). Amazon's AWS, on the other hand, is estimated to have brought in between $1.5 and $2 billion ( http://go.bloomberg.com/tech-deals/2013-03-07-what-if-amazon... , http://www.informationweek.com/cloud-computing/infrastructur... ) du…

I expect Azure to be successful for Windows servers, but I would like to know if there are Linux users that are switching from AWS to Azure.

I see Azure as a cloud service for Windows dev, I might be wrong it, Azure may just have an image problem but it just doesn't ring a bell outside the Windows world.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#52

Post by CloudNine »

ilaksh wrote: post #26
cooldeal wrote: post #10

Great, another .NET is dying post voted up on HN. Didn't we have one of those just this morning? Meanwhile, in the real world, Microsoft posted these earnings: "Server & Tools business reported $5.04 billion of revenue, up 11% from last year" Inspite of competing products like Linux, Apache, Eclipse, Ruby, Java being given away for free, people are willing to pay for Windows Server, Visual Studio and IIS. Does anyone…

Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. And I think that is one of the main reasons that many .NET developers who are a little bit familiar with open source and non-Microsoft technologies are starting to wonder if its worthwhile paying all of that money to have Microsoft make all of those architectural decisions for them. Just start w…

So, .NET is dying because quite a few people are locked into it? Sounds like you got it backwards.

And the red herrings about the name .NET don't make any sense except if you look from the context of the prevalent buzzwords and jargon at the end of 90s. Like, say "dotcom".

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#53

Post by cookiecaper »

cooldeal wrote: post #22
eduardordm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You couldn't buy the VS licenses + SQL Server + Windows Server with the money YCombinator provides you. So, yes, most microsoft products are incredibly damaging for a startup.

You don't need to buy them: http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/default.aspx Prime example: Stackoverflow/StackExchange is built on the Microsoft stack.

Not sure if that is a prime example, since StackOverflow was built with the wealthy businessman Joel Spolsky as a primary backer. That doesn't diminish anything they accomplished, it just means that they didn't do it without access to sufficient resources.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#54

Post by CloudNine »

eduardordm wrote: post #25
cooldeal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to buy them: http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/default.aspx Prime example: Stackoverflow/StackExchange is built on the Microsoft stack.

BizSpark has rules many startups cannot follow and is only valid for 3 years. This is the same selling scheme used by drug dealers.

There's a LOT of startups here http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/Partners/Startups.aspx

>This is the same selling scheme used by drug dealers.

Would you hold Google to the same standard and say that's true of their free Google Apps for education and how they use free email to sign you into Google.com so they can track you across different PCs?

http://www.google.com/enterprise/apps/education/

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#55

Post by cookiecaper »

jussij wrote: post #45
ilaksh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. And I think that is one of the main reasons that many .NET developers who are a little bit familiar with open source and non-Microsoft technologies are starting to wonder if its worthwhile paying all of that money to have Microsoft make all of those architectural decisions for them. Just start w…

> Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. I don't buy that for a minute. The Windows Server division is one of the fastest growing divisions inside of Microsoft. From their last Q3FY13 report revenue from server and tools grew 11% driven by SQL server and Windows Server growth. Based on those figures business is scrambling to buy into…

I don't know if that's a valid extrapolation. I, for one, in all my working years have never met a Linux company that was interested in switching to .NET, but I met many that wanted it the other way around if they could only justify the upfront investment to convert the proprietary application stack.

With cross-platform compatibility, specifically mobile compatibility [on platforms people actually use, i.e., not Windows Phone], being a major sticking point, .NET is becoming less and less desirable on the surface level.

Microsoft is just like Oracle. Big fancy businessmen who know nothing about development automatically buy into the MS stack just because it's a big name and the labor is easy to retain. Hardly any technical considerations go into it, and then they're upset when they [eventually] learn that the end result won't work with the iPad.

What about the alternate explanation that Windows Server is growing because demand for the products that already use Microsoft's stack is growing, despite the stack itself? What about the explanation that people are buying more server licenses than they used to due to increasingly widespread virtualization deployments? Whereas people used to buy relative big metal and run one OS on it, now people are taking that hardware and deploying many small VMs across it, each requiring its own license?

There are plenty of interpretations of that data that aren't "people are flocking to .NET".

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#56

Post by qu4z-2 »

guiomie wrote: post #39
bigdubs wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ASP.net MVC is pretty awesome, there are some good open source projects like Nancy for more lightweight stuff, Entity Framework isn't great but it's pretty mature and fast for an ORM. Visual Studio continues to be the best IDE on the market.

"Entity Framework" ... why dont you use Linq instead?

You mean Linq-to-Sql? Entity Framework lets you use Linq and manages your db for you. As long as you use the Code-First approach it's... okay. But it does at least support compiling Linq to Sql mostly alright. (I'm looking at you NHibernate)

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#57

Post by cookiecaper »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #33

Regardless of where .NET is headed, C# the language (which is an entirely separate beast) has, in my humble opinion, become the most damn awesome all-around language. It's got all the awesome features most of which are very elegantly implemented and accessible in a very streamlined fashion. Obviously if you hate C-syntax, C# isn't going to win any brownie points, but in terms of sheer power and flexibility, C# 5.0 st…

I agree. C# is a very robust, professionally designed language. I enjoy using it through Mono.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#58

Post by roc »

jussij wrote: post #45
ilaksh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. And I think that is one of the main reasons that many .NET developers who are a little bit familiar with open source and non-Microsoft technologies are starting to wonder if its worthwhile paying all of that money to have Microsoft make all of those architectural decisions for them. Just start w…

> Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. I don't buy that for a minute. The Windows Server division is one of the fastest growing divisions inside of Microsoft. From their last Q3FY13 report revenue from server and tools grew 11% driven by SQL server and Windows Server growth. Based on those figures business is scrambling to buy into…

Those numbers don't necessarily mean anyone is making a conscious decision to buy in. they could simply mean the installed base needs 11% more server licensing by dollar to scale/maintain their existing solutions.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#59

Post by jussij »

cookiecaper wrote: post #55
jussij wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quite a few people are locked into that toolchain and don't have a choice but to continue buying what Microsoft is selling. I don't buy that for a minute. The Windows Server division is one of the fastest growing divisions inside of Microsoft. From their last Q3FY13 report revenue from server and tools grew 11% driven by SQL server and Windows Server growth. Based on those figures business is scrambling to buy into…

I don't know if that's a valid extrapolation. I, for one, in all my working years have never met a Linux company that was interested in switching to .NET, but I met many that wanted it the other way around if they could only justify the upfront investment to convert the proprietary application stack. With cross-platform compatibility, specifically mobile compatibility [on platforms people actually use, i.e., not Wind…

I suspect all your alternate explanations as to why the server division is growing are true. The server divison is doing extremely well.

My point is I doubt very much the server division would be doing as well as it is if the Op was correct in saying people are locked into that toolchain.

Because that would suggest a lot of people would be unhappy with that situation (i.e. meaning bad press, bad word of mouth, bad for business) and many of those would also be trying desperately to leave that toolchain and succeeding (i.e. reduced sales).

The sales figures indicate the opposite is true.

Re: Where Is .Net Headed?

#60

Post by pjmlp »

eduardordm wrote: post #20
cooldeal wrote: post #10

Great, another .NET is dying post voted up on HN. Didn't we have one of those just this morning? Meanwhile, in the real world, Microsoft posted these earnings: "Server & Tools business reported $5.04 billion of revenue, up 11% from last year" Inspite of competing products like Linux, Apache, Eclipse, Ruby, Java being given away for free, people are willing to pay for Windows Server, Visual Studio and IIS. Does anyone…

You couldn't buy the VS licenses + SQL Server + Windows Server with the money YCombinator provides you. So, yes, most microsoft products are incredibly damaging for a startup.

You can say the same of any commercial vendor.

How you would do a startup in a world without BSD and Linux, just with commercial vendors?

There are more out there than just Apple and Microsoft.

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