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The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#101

Post by dorfsmay »

yanw wrote: post #41
dwdbah wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Much of the Google Talk video stuff was all designed for XMPP; they actively took part in the standardization at times. WhatsApp is XMPP, fundamentally, in any case.

Why is it not utilized more widely then? foregoing for a minute that everyone is cultivating their own gardens - what are the weaknesses of XMPP that would make it so easily avoidable for most of these apps?

There are no weaknesses in XMPP. The issue are the protocols on the side, the ones that do video and voice. XMPP allows to chat and create a voice/video session, but:

1) the free protocols to do voice and video are not as good as the proprietary ones

2) it seems that every client use a different set of protocols for video and chat

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#102

Post by jamesaguilar »

stock_toaster wrote: post #64
mtgx wrote: post #3

Larry Page seemed very upset [1] that Microsoft is basically leeching off their Gtalk contacts into Outlook, without returning the favor (with Skype I assume), and he said he'd prefer if things weren't like this and everyone was more open. He didn't continue that idea, but I think he would've continued it with "...but since nobody wants to do that, then we won't do it anymore either". So they are probably responding…

As a user, I am upset that it is getting harder to communicate with people. Everyone has their own non-interoperable (but cross platform!) protocols/networks/gardens now. * blackberry bbm * apple imessage * google hangouts * skype * whatsapp, etc. As a user, am I supposed to have an account with one of each of these things? Have nine different apps open all the time? This is as bad as icq/messenger/aim/etc was back i…

iMessage is transparent, so that doesn't bother me. I have three [edit: four] solutions: GTalk, Email, Text, and Facebook. Except GTalk, they're all passive (i.e. I get messages from them on my phone without the app being open). Now that hangouts are available, it's 100% passive. This doesn't seem like that bad of an outcome to me.

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#103

Post by AceJohnny2 »

andybak wrote: post #33

Well done everyone. Instant Messaging is now dead for me because all the people I used to chat with are now fragmented across 4 or 5 different services. Aside from those who gave up on IM for the same reason I now have to. You've all literally killed IM. Well done.

XMPP/Jabber has the concept of Transports to address this very problem.

Sure, you usually get a common denominator of features between the various networks, but presence and chat usually is enough.

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#104

Post by oaktowner »

jamesaguilar wrote: post #102
stock_toaster wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user, I am upset that it is getting harder to communicate with people. Everyone has their own non-interoperable (but cross platform!) protocols/networks/gardens now. * blackberry bbm * apple imessage * google hangouts * skype * whatsapp, etc. As a user, am I supposed to have an account with one of each of these things? Have nine different apps open all the time? This is as bad as icq/messenger/aim/etc was back i…

iMessage is transparent, so that doesn't bother me. I have three [edit: four] solutions: GTalk, Email, Text, and Facebook. Except GTalk, they're all passive (i.e. I get messages from them on my phone without the app being open). Now that hangouts are available, it's 100% passive. This doesn't seem like that bad of an outcome to me.

That's 4. The old "off by one" error.

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#105

Post by aspensmonster »

r00fus wrote: post #38

Yay, the balkanization of chat. So much for babel/babble. Now you have iMessage, WhatsApp, Viber, Skype, Hangouts, etc. etc. The biggies will be the ones supported by large companies (ie, Skype, iMessage, Hangouts). So when will Amazon buy Viber or another smaller chat community?.

So... we're back to the 90s? AIM and ICQ and YIM and MSN? I CAN'T WAIT.

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#106

Post by uniclaude »

hamax wrote: post #59
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #34

I run two user accounts in Chrome during the day: One connected to my personal use the other to Google Apps for Business. I use Chat for Google for both (Adium sucks) About an hour ago, the personal account had a changed icon, started looking nicer, and is now called Hangouts. The Apps for business one stayed the same. I've never been closer to being a fanboi than I was with Google, but this seals it...I'm pissed. Cl…

You're wrong on almost every point. "Don't Be Evil" is not Google's motto, XMPP chat still works fine for my hangouts account and no, they couldn't do it without breaking the XMPP. I just hope they'll keep XMPP running for the chat. I'll stop using it the second it'll stop working in bitlbee.

> "Don't Be Evil" is not Google's motto

Ahem. This[1] is close enough to a motto to make this part of your comment irrelevant.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_evil

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#107

Post by est »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #103
andybak wrote: post #33

Well done everyone. Instant Messaging is now dead for me because all the people I used to chat with are now fragmented across 4 or 5 different services. Aside from those who gave up on IM for the same reason I now have to. You've all literally killed IM. Well done.

XMPP/Jabber has the concept of Transports to address this very problem. Sure, you usually get a common denominator of features between the various networks, but presence and chat usually is enough.

You mean the transports that spams my buddy list with tons of inactive contacts and duplicates?

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#108

Post by jamesaguilar »

oaktowner wrote: post #104
jamesaguilar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is transparent, so that doesn't bother me. I have three [edit: four] solutions: GTalk, Email, Text, and Facebook. Except GTalk, they're all passive (i.e. I get messages from them on my phone without the app being open). Now that hangouts are available, it's 100% passive. This doesn't seem like that bad of an outcome to me.

That's 4. The old "off by one" error.

Well, I am a software engineer, so it's traditional. :P

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#109

Post by zmmmmm »

This is incredibly confusing. The sentences seem to alternate, between "Your end users will be affected, you must do something" and "Your end users will not be affected". Some of the sentences seem to imply this is isolated to AppEngine ("Your users may use any chat client that supports XMPP","the changes discussed above have no impact on non-Google XMPP clients") and others seem to imply that Hangouts is going to completely stop working with XMPP, if not now, very soon.

Can anyone clarify if this actually impacts your average standalone XMPP client, not connected with AppEngine, sending and receiving messages to Google Talk users?

Re: The new Google Hangouts will not support XMPP

#110

Post by manicbovine »

hamax wrote: post #59
ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #34

I run two user accounts in Chrome during the day: One connected to my personal use the other to Google Apps for Business. I use Chat for Google for both (Adium sucks) About an hour ago, the personal account had a changed icon, started looking nicer, and is now called Hangouts. The Apps for business one stayed the same. I've never been closer to being a fanboi than I was with Google, but this seals it...I'm pissed. Cl…

You're wrong on almost every point. "Don't Be Evil" is not Google's motto, XMPP chat still works fine for my hangouts account and no, they couldn't do it without breaking the XMPP. I just hope they'll keep XMPP running for the chat. I'll stop using it the second it'll stop working in bitlbee.

Whether or not "Don't be evil" is their motto, it's clear that they've failed to manage expectations.
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