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The dying platform: .Net

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11–20 of 110 posts

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#11
Perhaps I'm thinking too narrowly, but I don't see how these points apply to ASP.Net (whether it's MVC or web forms). I've always thought of ASP.Net as the most successful section of the .net framework, with native application capabilities running a good amount behind.

And all the technologies/hardware he mentions here are agnostic to the web/network portion of a system.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#12
post #3

From what perspective are you coming from that you think .NET is dying (student, education, corporate, open source)? MS has never been a technology leader as they tend to let others make the early mistakes then charge in, ask Netware, OS2/IBM, Sony, Netscape. Early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!

All of the above?

A little background: some of my earliest bits of programming were on VB5, then VB6, and then .NET 1.0 when that first showed up. I spent most of my early years on MS platforms, and for the most part I liked them.

I picked up a Surface RT to hack on last year, after a long absence from .NET. The state of .NET shocked me.

For one thing, the subset of .NET that's available on WinRT vs. "real" Win8 vs. WinPhone is really poorly defined. The documentation is incredibly fragmented, and it was very frustrating the even some relatively basic utility classes weren't available on some platforms. It was a struggle trying to cobble even a basic WinRT app together because of how much trial and error there is ("does this class exist? oh shit, no, okay... what's the equivalent class that's named slightly differently in a slightly different namespace...")

There's also a tremendous lack of open source. I develop iOS apps for a living nowadays, and open source is a huge part of that community. .NET has a huge lack of it - everything substantial is proprietary and commercial. Where I can Google for a bit and slap together some libs in an hour on iOS, on .NET it's downloading the trial libs of some commercial libraries, trying them out, adding the totals, and realizing that the same feature set will cost you $10K a year for these licenses. The alternative on Android/iOS is free.

A more general complaint is MS's schizophrenic support of .NET. When .NET 1.0 first came about it was touted as Microsoft's long-term direction. This was the new platform, and we can count on it being supported as a first-class citizen on all MS platforms for a long-long time. That didn't pan out exactly. Microsoft has a really bad habit of making 90-degree turns every so often that destroys any developer trust. You can't rely on anything on a MS platform because in 3 month's time they could pull the rug out from under you with little to no warning.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#13
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you factor in Windows and SQL Server licensing costs. Most people are using ASP.NET (one of the many incarnations, at least). .NET on individual workstations is... irrelevant. Largely.

Not sure what you mean. Ignoring the server side for a moment, are people not using .Net or do you just not like it? And once you've paid for Visual Studio, what other costs are there, assuming your workstation already runs Windows?

You present a false dichotomy. I neither said that people aren't using .NET or that I dislike it. I'm saying that having .NET installed on the desktop doesn't sell copies of their latest operating system, and for most corporates they are deploying web apps via ASP.NET.

I see no reason why I should be ignoring the server marketplace, because IMHO frankly that's where the corporate dollar is.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#14
post #5

I'm apt to agree. I have used .net before in a large desktop app and it was brilliant but I'm sure I will never use it again - deskwhat? Only thing I can think of that might save the day is if MS properly open sourced it. Chances of that have to be pretty much identically zero though.

They'd need more than to open source it, I think. For .NET to make it, they would need some kind of killer app -- something that makes people use .NET despite whatever natural inclinations they may have. I don't see that happening.

I mean, ten years ago, did you think lots of people would be coding in Objective C? It's funny how things change.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#15
post #2

.Net is one of our workhorses in desktop app development. Maybe it's not the latest trend but there are still a lot of utility apps written in .Net. If your corporate PCs run Windows, as almost all still are, then .Net is your most convenient choice.

Not if you factor in Windows and SQL Server licensing costs. Most people are using ASP.NET (one of the many incarnations, at least). .NET on individual workstations is... irrelevant. Largely.

>.NET on individual workstations is... irrelevant. Largely.

In your world maybe. For bespoke LOB applications, it really isn't.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#16
Java isn't looking too good, either, at least in the desktop. You know your platform has jumped the shark when it comes bundled with a toolbar.

The question is, where to next? I've been watching Go for a while, but it looks like a tool from Googlers, for Googlers. Pulling all my dependencies from HEAD? No, thank you. Ironically, Javascript looks very promising right now, compared with the alternatives.

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#17
One of the things that I've often thought MS could do to attract more developers to this platform, is to release the brilliant piece of software that is Visual Studio, for FREE. Not just the "Express" edition...the full blown "Ultimate" edition.

They should also buy Red Gate and Jet Brains and bake their products into VS and SSMS themselves, while happily releasing updates and enhancements for FREE.

Bah...what do I know?

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#18
post #17

One of the things that I've often thought MS could do to attract more developers to this platform, is to release the brilliant piece of software that is Visual Studio, for FREE. Not just the "Express" edition...the full blown "Ultimate" edition. They should also buy Red Gate and Jet Brains and bake their products into VS and SSMS themselves, while happily releasing updates and enhancements for FREE. Bah...what do I k…

Hell, since they've got deep pockets, I'd consider purchasing Telerik too and bake their controls into the IDE and still give that shit away for free...

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#19
According to a lot of job sites .NET isn't dying at all...

Maybe the author has the feeling it is dying because other platforms are in the news more often?

Re: The dying platform: .Net

#20
I've been programming .NET since 1.1 and love the platform. It just works. But, I pick my technologies carefully. I called silverlight not working out. I've been staying away from WCF/WPF. No one writes in the news when something goes right, only wrong. This article is more rabble rousing than anything. You can focus on the things that are going wrong. If you are putting out new technologies, some are going to fail. That's the nature of the game.
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