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Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

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Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#61

Post by BurritoAlPastor »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #15

There is a simple solution to this problem. Don't allow project creators to offer the project as a reward! It should be ok for people to try and fail with projects on Kickstarter. By preventing creators from offering the product as a reward backers will understand better that it isn't a pre-order system. It's an "I need money for this idea. It might work or it might fail but if you want to help me try, give me money"…

Literally every Kickstarter project I've backed was for the printing of a finished work. (Mostly board games and books, plus one album and one movie.) Your suggestion defeats the reason those projects were ever kickstarter, and Kickstarter would be shooting themselves in the foot to implement that.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#62

Post by k-mcgrady »

wubbfindel wrote: post #54
k-mcgrady wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Then what's the incentive to participate at all?" Someone believes they can create a product you want. They can only create it if you give them some money to get going. The incentive is a product you want getting built. Do you want this thing enough that you're willing to risk $10 backing it? I think for a lot of people that's enough incentive.

Not even a VC backs a project purely because they believe in it - they look for the potential return.

A VC invests large amounts of money (which isn't their own) for financial gain. That's very different to chipping in $10 of your own money for something you want to see built that probably won't be built otherwise.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#63

Post by breadbox »

hop wrote: post #50

Im a backer and they offered refunds twice to anyone that wanted it so I don't know why anyone is complaining. This project was before Kickstarter disallowed renderings (for good reason) and they would probably never have gotten to this shitty position if they had to actually prototype it and find out how insanely expensive it would be to manufacture.

The complaint says that they have not actually given out the offered refunds. Is that not true?

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#64

Post by UVB-76 »

imroot wrote: post #52
alexchamberlain wrote: post #29

Part of their description was the following... Is the Crypteks USB™ Patented? Definitely! Patents covering the unique locking mechanisms as well as iterations for future implementations of varying possible internal electronics have been filed with the USPTO with international coverage. Crypteks Inc. reserves all rights with respect to the use of Logos & Slogans as well as the design concepts and iterations covered un…

Crypteks, Inc has a few patents (mainly dealing with network security), but nothing patented for the USB key. http://1.usa.gov/14l68Uj

Does that database display pending patents? It seems to me they are claiming to have patents pending.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#65

Post by Retric »

wubbfindel wrote: post #54
k-mcgrady wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "Then what's the incentive to participate at all?" Someone believes they can create a product you want. They can only create it if you give them some money to get going. The incentive is a product you want getting built. Do you want this thing enough that you're willing to risk $10 backing it? I think for a lot of people that's enough incentive.

Not even a VC backs a project purely because they believe in it - they look for the potential return.

The NPR model where they may or may not stay on the air regardless of your donation is a much better long term model for kick-starter than pre-orders. IMO, the best way to keep the idea alive is to make the retail versions of the product cost significantly less than those pre-orders.

Something like: Support Baldur's gate III, donate 100$ and get a retail version of the game when it comes out. (estimated retail value 50$)

The idea being your making it clear your doing something other than shopping when you donate to a kick-starter project.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#66

Post by 6chars »

Udo wrote: post #30

The expectations some people have about crowdfunding are unrealistic. It has to be clear from the start that when you donate money to those projects the money will be spent and the project might fail anyway. People have been using Kickstarter as a pre-order site which I think is not ideal in many cases. The option to preorder should be different from supporting a project in general, but Kickstarter sadly doesn't offe…

This is the thing that gives me a bad feeling about Kickstarter. It seems like the site and its project creators are preying on those who are willing to lay down money based on hype without being adequately compensated for the amount of risk they're shouldering.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#67

Post by larrys »

minimaxir wrote: post #19
bbx wrote: post #16

The project has reached a $196K funding while the initial goal was "only" $12K. Maybe Kickstarter should limit the amount of money to this initial goal, or at least to twice the amount of this goal. If a project looks promising, more people are likely to pledge for it. But if Cryptrade thought $12K was enough to develop their project, that's probably all they actually needed. And $12K is both less tempting for Cryptr…

Since Kickstarter gets a 5% cut, they have no incentive to limit the amount of funding.

What's interesting about this situation is that if people complain (as some have) to their credit card companies and the charges bounce then kickstarter gets hit with a chargeback fee in addition to the money that was paid in. I've seen chargeback fees of between $25 and $35 per transaction.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#68

Post by dangrossman »

larrys wrote: post #67
minimaxir wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Kickstarter gets a 5% cut, they have no incentive to limit the amount of funding.

What's interesting about this situation is that if people complain (as some have) to their credit card companies and the charges bounce then kickstarter gets hit with a chargeback fee in addition to the money that was paid in. I've seen chargeback fees of between $25 and $35 per transaction.

Kickstarter doesn't get hit with these fees since Kickstarter isn't processing/receiving the payments. It appears to me that money goes directly to the project owner's Amazon Payments account, so any chargebacks would land there as well.

Even if Amazon lays the blame for the chargebacks on Kickstarter, they're probably safe. Since they're still in business, it's pretty safe to assume their overall chargeback rate is below 1% by transaction volume, as that's the threshold where processors start hassling you because Visa/MC will start hassling them. Given KickStarter keeps 5% of 100% of the volume as revenue, there's a lot of padding there to handle any chargeback fees and still be very profitable.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#69

Post by jlgreco »

fuzzywalrus wrote: post #24
uptown wrote: post #3

I'm surprised this isn't a more-common outcome of things on Kickstarter. Seems like the perfect "market" to peddle vaporware without consequence.

After a few bad projects like this, Kickstarter now has the following disclaimer and new hardware guidelines "Product simulations are prohibited. Projects cannot simulate events to demonstrate what a product might do in the future. Products can only be shown performing actions that they’re able to perform in their current state of development. Product renderings are prohibited. Product images must be photos of the pr…

Product renderings are prohibited.. but I wonder if photographs of cleaned up 3d prints of those same files would be permitted.

Re: Kickstarter project raised $196K and stopped responding

#70

Post by prbuckley »

bbx wrote: post #16

The project has reached a $196K funding while the initial goal was "only" $12K. Maybe Kickstarter should limit the amount of money to this initial goal, or at least to twice the amount of this goal. If a project looks promising, more people are likely to pledge for it. But if Cryptrade thought $12K was enough to develop their project, that's probably all they actually needed. And $12K is both less tempting for Cryptr…

It might be a good idea for Kickstarter to only release the goal amount initially until the project lead can prove they meet their initial pledges. The remainder can get held in an escrow account and released once the project is off on the right foot.
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