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Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

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Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#81
post #43

This is unsafe for pedestrians. The yellow light means "Clear the intersection," not "Slow down." The purpose is to give time to people crossing the sidewalks to finish walking over to the other side. Shortening them is a safety hazard for pedestrians like me who don't own a vehicle. I don't live in Florida, but this is shameful and disgusting.

I'm pretty sure the flashing-hand signal is what gives pedestrians time to clear the intersection (often with a counter!).

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After you turn 14 you'll realize there is actually never an appropriate moment for an Ayn Rand quote.

After you turn 30 you realize that not everyone will believe what you do or be right about everything, but when they are right about one thing and you disregard it 'out of principle', you look the fool.

like a rapier.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#83

I wonder how it would be if we eliminated yellow lights altogether and instead had a countdown on the green light. At the very least it might save gas, as you could see that the green light ahead will turn red long before you could hope to hit the intersection, so you could coast in. Of course, you'd need to have an adequate "all-red" time for it to not be dangerous.

You can kind of do this by looking at the clock on the pedestrian sign. I would think it would help more with traffic flow than saving on gas.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#84
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving through a yellow light is not illegal. Also, is shortening yellows actually making the roads safer or is it just a way to increase revenues? Seems like one likely cause of shorter yellow lights is that more people make harder stops at intersections, result in more rear-end collisions.

In many places, such as where I grew up in Ohio, the language regarding yellow lights is to "clear the intersection", and that if you are able to stop, you must not enter an intersection when presented with a yellow light. In other words, treat it like a red light, unless you absolutely cannot stop. Of course in practice most folks will go for it if they think they can clear the intersection in time. Some may even ac…

I live somewhere with long yellows and it does encourage people to run the lights. It's a problem, but we are also a very bike-friendly city and long yellows give cyclists time to clear the intersection. Also, there is a delay after the red before the next right-of-way gets their green and this seems to prevent accidents (because the late-yellow/red light runners are clear before the next green).

Nevertheless, we do have some red light cameras here. One day I was stuck at an intersection with a camera, and I was waiting to turn left. I had a red left turn signal, and it suddenly stopped cycling. It was rush hour, and after three cycles with no green arrow, I called the non-emergency dispatch and told them the problem and asked the cop what I should do. She told me to take the safest course of action I thought I could. I told her that was running the red light during a break from oncoming traffic, but that I would be given a ticket for this. She said she couldn't invite me to break the law, but just do the safest thing. The legal move would have been to change lanes to the right and go straight through the intersection on a green, but this was also the most dangerous choice because of the heavy traffic flow. Thankfully the light cycle following my conversation with the cop, I got my green arrow, but it sucked to feel so helpless--knowing the safest and correct action (running the red once oncoming traffic allowed it) and knowing I would be penalized for it.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#85
post #43

This is unsafe for pedestrians. The yellow light means "Clear the intersection," not "Slow down." The purpose is to give time to people crossing the sidewalks to finish walking over to the other side. Shortening them is a safety hazard for pedestrians like me who don't own a vehicle. I don't live in Florida, but this is shameful and disgusting.

This is absolutely incorrect. Traffic lights are for vehicles. Pedestrians should be obeying the pedestrian signals and your cue to "clear the intersection" is the blinking red hand. Traffic lights do not switch to yellow until after the pedestrian signals are solid red hands.

This obviously only applies where pedestrian signage exists.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#86
post #47

I think short yellows are dangerous, especially with loaded vehicles. US DOT should set standards for minimum yellow light times. Here is one such proposal: http://www.shortyellowlights.com/standards/ EDIT: Linked to proposed standard and equation

US DOT should set standards for minimum yellow light times. They do, through the MUTCD: http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/knowledge/faqs/faq_part4.htm#q32

I meant actual times, the MUTCD only says you must use "engineering practices" in determining the interval. The ITE equation was included in my link -- however it optimizes for reduced red-light violations, so it's no wonder it's not used in these cases.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#87
post #80

An appropriate partial quote of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged: “Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken." "But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt."

Why is HN so obsessed with Ayn Rand? It's a serious question that I've been meaning to ask for some time. I never heard about her before joining Hacker News, and since then it's been at least once a week. Is this a Silicon Valley thing?

It's more of an American thing. Her philosophies fit in well with existing Individualism.

Her influence was never particularly large, and has faded over time, but left a cultural mark. (See all the objections to the GP? :)

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#88
post #43

This is unsafe for pedestrians. The yellow light means "Clear the intersection," not "Slow down." The purpose is to give time to people crossing the sidewalks to finish walking over to the other side. Shortening them is a safety hazard for pedestrians like me who don't own a vehicle. I don't live in Florida, but this is shameful and disgusting.

I'm pretty sure the flashing-hand signal is what gives pedestrians time to clear the intersection (often with a counter!).

I've seen enough crosswalks that go from solid red hand to a flashing red hand immediately, that I now ignore the flashing red hand until the street light turns yellow.

Shortening it makes it dangerous for a lot of parties.

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After you turn 14 you'll realize there is actually never an appropriate moment for an Ayn Rand quote.

After you turn 30 you realize that not everyone will believe what you do or be right about everything, but when they are right about one thing and you disregard it 'out of principle', you look the fool.

[deleted]

Re: Florida shortened yellow lights to increase red light camera revenue [video]

#90
post #43

This is unsafe for pedestrians. The yellow light means "Clear the intersection," not "Slow down." The purpose is to give time to people crossing the sidewalks to finish walking over to the other side. Shortening them is a safety hazard for pedestrians like me who don't own a vehicle. I don't live in Florida, but this is shameful and disgusting.

The yellow light does mean "clear the intersection", but its purpose is not to give pedestrians time to finish their crossing. There are many things that have to clear the intersections, not just pedestrians. Plus, the decrease they talk about in Florida is only by fractions of a second, anyway.

Here in Toronto, we have an additional two seconds of "all red" light after any yellow lights, to give time for left-turning vehicles to finish their turn.

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