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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#141

Post by MarkPNeyer »

ardit33 wrote: post #132
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #84

i worked at uber and twilio in the city. I was so bothered by the homeless people I saw everyday that it seriously impeded my work performance. i'd walk by them and feel terrible for not being able to help, for having an easy time making money, and feel afraid that my bipolar disorder would get worse and i'd end up like them. it was hard to function properly at work when I'd start my day feeling guilty, powerless and…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally. One thing you realize is that a lot of the people on the streets have major mental conditions (usually schizophrenia, and major dr…

i'm 27 now - this was when i was 25. i've since moved to the south bay to work at google, and things have improved significantly after a lot of meditation. i honestly have a more 'adversarial' mindset towards the homeless - i think a lot of the people in sf begging for change simply don't want to work, and because they can make a living preying on the guilt of people like me, they do so.

as for the schizophrenics out there, i am honestly still a little afraid of being one of them, but i'm lucky enough to have a huge support network.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#142

Post by reinhardt »

downandout wrote: post #51
ams6110 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about "most" but somewhere between "most" and "no one" there ARE some people who choose to be "on the streets."

Please find one and post about it here. I would love to meet this mythical person and take a video of them rejecting the offer of a place to live.

> the offer of a place to live.

By "offer", do you mean for free? Well, duh. What the GP most likely meant is that some people prefer to be homeless rather than having to get and hold down a job to afford a place to live.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#143

Post by run4yourlives »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #134
run4yourlives wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Distributing money indiscriminately devalues work and effort. This is a poor understanding of the concept. The idea behind a Basic Income Guarantee is that it is received equally by every citizen in the country. It's an idea linked to Negative Income Tax and other like proposals, and shares support of many with a more libertarian/economically conservative bent. In most areas of North America where Basic Income exper…

I apologise if a simple search should find this and I just such at searching, but I'm intrigued after your comment. There seems to be little information about the Manitoba experiment and what Alaska calls "Basic Income" doesn't seem consistent with what is being discussed. Where else in North America have people experimented with this?

Check wikipedia for Negative Income Tax schemes, which are extremely similar and were experimented with in the US under Nixon in the 70's.

This is also interesting: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/a-new-approach-to-...

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#144

Post by zacharycohn »

ardit33 wrote: post #132
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #84

i worked at uber and twilio in the city. I was so bothered by the homeless people I saw everyday that it seriously impeded my work performance. i'd walk by them and feel terrible for not being able to help, for having an easy time making money, and feel afraid that my bipolar disorder would get worse and i'd end up like them. it was hard to function properly at work when I'd start my day feeling guilty, powerless and…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally. One thing you realize is that a lot of the people on the streets have major mental conditions (usually schizophrenia, and major dr…

"It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally."

I think the point of the article is that that's fucked up, and not how the world should be. And what I suspect the author realized is that it isn't the way he or she wants to be.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#145

Post by VMG »

run4yourlives wrote: post #95
VMG wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is simple. You simply give every adult citizen enough money every year to insure that they can afford food, shelter, and other basic needs. Give it to everyone, rich or poor, same amount. BAM! You left out the part where the money comes from. Your idea is fine and dandy, but I doubt you are currently implementing it yourself by spending your own money. The idea depends on everybody being forced to pay.…

>Distributing money indiscriminately devalues work and effort. This is a poor understanding of the concept. The idea behind a Basic Income Guarantee is that it is received equally by every citizen in the country. It's an idea linked to Negative Income Tax and other like proposals, and shares support of many with a more libertarian/economically conservative bent. In most areas of North America where Basic Income exper…

So why should I want to subsidize single mothers? Why should I disincentivize teenagers from gaining their first work experience?

I agree that there are some people who deserve financial support, but it should be up to the individual to decide who that is and how much they should receive.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#147

Post by jiggy2011 »

beat wrote: post #115
jiggy2011 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then wouldn't businesses who sell a lot of goods to people on the minimum income just put their prices up to force the gov to increase the minimum income at above inflation rates every year? You also still have the problem of people like drug addicts who spend all of their minimum income on drugs/drink/gambling and are still left homeless.

And wouldn't some other business step in then and undersell them? Supply and demand, man. And yes, there would still be people who blew their GMI money on drugs and wound up homeless. And there would still be charities to help them.

You have to account for price collusion, which is very difficult to prevent. Not to mention that all markets are not equally elastic.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#148

Post by nemesis1637 »

ardit33 wrote: post #132
MarkPNeyer wrote: post #84

i worked at uber and twilio in the city. I was so bothered by the homeless people I saw everyday that it seriously impeded my work performance. i'd walk by them and feel terrible for not being able to help, for having an easy time making money, and feel afraid that my bipolar disorder would get worse and i'd end up like them. it was hard to function properly at work when I'd start my day feeling guilty, powerless and…

How old are you? I used to have the same existential feelings as well when I moved in SF, but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally. One thing you realize is that a lot of the people on the streets have major mental conditions (usually schizophrenia, and major dr…

"but over time you just get used to it and don't care anymore. It is part of the maturation process and realize that the world is not a fair place, and no not everybody is equal and will live equally."

This is depressing.

"This is part of life." feels like a common cop-out and downplays the fact that, if some of us put our minds to it, we could successfully make it not so much a part of life (I'm not saying we'd have some utopian equality, but it could be so much better).

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#149

Post by dyno12345 »

ownagefool wrote: post #123
jrochkind1 wrote: post #4

The guy's Scottish, he thinks it's about San Fran specifically, it's really about AMERICA. Maybe San Fran puts it even more in your face. But compared to most any other country even half as rich as America, the lack of social safety net in the U.S. is kind of shocking. People in Europe don't really realize the extent of it.

I'm Scottish and while I've not quite experienced it myself, I'm happy living in Europe where m taxes are spent on health care as opposed to bombs. It's not so much shocking as it is just really sad. :(

It's not zero-sum. The US already spends more per capita on healthcare than every other country. It just does so extremely inefficaciously.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#150

Post by run4yourlives »

dragonwriter wrote: post #130
run4yourlives wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no redistribution. Everyone is entitled to the same benefit, just like they are entitled to fire protection. Over a certain amount of income earned however, the benefit becomes negligible.

> There is no redistribution. Everyone is entitled to the same benefit, just like they are entitled to fire protection. This type of thing (even when it involves fire protection) is redistribution. One set of people are taxed to pay for things, another set of people get the benefit -- even if it is the same set of people the distribution of the tax and the benefit aren't the same, and the difference is redistribution…

>One set of people are taxed to pay for things, another set of people get the benefit

Ah, no. ALL people pay for things. How that payment occurs is a product of a progressive tax system in most cases, but there is no requirement that such a system exists to run service.

You wouldn't call a private security service employed by a gated community "wealth redistribution", would you? Although if they had an income driven progressive fee structure it would be.

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