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Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

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Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#51
post #3

This- to put it mildly- is Not Good. I'll quote David Carr's tweet[1],which best sums up my feelings on the matter: Lemme see, IRS going after political opponents plus DOJ tapping AP reporters. Nixonian optics on "the most transparent admin in history." I do wonder what kind of a legacy the Obama administration will leave to history when these kinds of events are stacked up. [1] https://twitter.com/carr2n/status/3340…

If you're making a list of the most tyrannical Presidents ever, you'd have to put FDR near the top of that. And his reputation has survived. Obama is a progressive. So are history professors. His legacy will be fine.

Nah, it's just that Hoover did such a good job it makes FDR look bad by comparison.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#52
I posted this on my FB wall, pretty outraged, and a friend of mine who is a former federal prosecutor had this to say in response:

Let me provide some context: this was certainly not unchecked or without oversight. In fact, any time phone records are requested by federal subpoena as part of a criminal investigation (which is what happened here), the subpoenas are checked by a federal grand jury and -- later in the process -- open for judicial and public review. During the investigative phase, subpoenas are kept sealed in court records to protect the privacy rights of innocent people and to maintain investigative integrity. This is a normal part of our legal process, and consistent with best international practices. Also, because of obvious free press concerns, there are special checks in place whenever you want to subpoena records of press officials. You have to prove that it's necessary for the criminal investigation and that there is no other way to get the info. It's actually such a pain in the ass (lots of paperwork and waiting for a long line of signatures) that no one would want to go through it unless it was absolutely necessary. Here, they're investigating criminal leakage of classified information about a CIA's disruption of a terrorist plot to blow up an airliner on the anniversary of bin Laden's death. Whoever leaked the information committed a serious crime and likely put lives in danger. (Confidential sources are important to reporters, but they are perhaps even more important and certainly harder to come by for intelligence officers. CIA may have worked for years to acquire the source that allowed them to foil the terrorist plot, and that source may now be dead as a result of the leak of classified information.) The article has fairly limited information but says that there were 20 phone lines for which records were subpoenaed. This number would be consistent with investigation of a leak to one of a small handful of people, and although we won't know until court records are ultimately unsealed, I suspect the records requested for the office lines were probably tailored in scope to match that set of people. Like I said, the approval process is onerous, and you have a much better chance of getting things signed if you really narrow the scope of your request (e.g., "We know the data was leaked in this 3 day period, and we suspect the info was received by this person, who worked in the office from 4-8pm those days, so we'll request those times.") The records you get back from the phone company include phone numbers called and duration of calls, and then you can subpoena other records if you see any numbers that match up with the person suspected of leaking the classified info. I think it's important to keep in mind that our intelligence operations play a critical role in keeping us safe. If we're unwilling to accept law enforcement's role in protecting our intelligence services, then we should expect more attacks like the one that happened in Boston.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#53
post #3

This- to put it mildly- is Not Good. I'll quote David Carr's tweet[1],which best sums up my feelings on the matter: Lemme see, IRS going after political opponents plus DOJ tapping AP reporters. Nixonian optics on "the most transparent admin in history." I do wonder what kind of a legacy the Obama administration will leave to history when these kinds of events are stacked up. [1] https://twitter.com/carr2n/status/3340…

If you're making a list of the most tyrannical Presidents ever, you'd have to put FDR near the top of that. And his reputation has survived. Obama is a progressive. So are history professors. His legacy will be fine.

> Obama is a progressive

Not so sure that will be part of his legacy. He generally concedes to corporate will and is so accommodating to Republicans he plans to cut social security, which they're now criticizing him for. Let's not forget that Republicans (McCain) supported national healthcare to some extent. If anything, Obama will be appreciated by progressives for his liberal Supreme Court appointments, but whether he's ever remembered as a progressive remains to be seen. Though, it's definitely what Fox News would have you think.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#54
post #46
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was an interesting argument, so I did some quick research. Apparently, six (6) Espionage Act cases have been filed under Obama. I found and read the indictments for each (they're easy to find, since FAS tracks them). They were: * Thomas Drake, an NSA employee who favored "ThinThread" instead of the later-adopted "Trailblazer" internet surveillance scheme, who then created a Hushmail account and fed classified do…

...But not Karl Rove http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair#Karl_Rove

Don't you mean Richard Armitage? Read your link.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#55
post #25

They told me if I voted for McCain that we'd end up living in a police state after 8 years...and they were right! Credit to Instapundit if you care to see more from the most transparent administration ever http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/?s=%22They+told+me+if+I+voted...

Pretty much both sides of the spectrum look pretty grim. I used to be a hard-ass liberal, but now I've changed my outlook, matured a bit, and become a libertarian. Their philosophy makes the most sense, but no one seems to listen.

Demosthenes and Locke are the only voices allowed... and you must rabidly adhere to one or the other. Ah, Ender, didn't you know?

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#56
post #25

They told me if I voted for McCain that we'd end up living in a police state after 8 years...and they were right! Credit to Instapundit if you care to see more from the most transparent administration ever http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/?s=%22They+told+me+if+I+voted...

Pretty much both sides of the spectrum look pretty grim. I used to be a hard-ass liberal, but now I've changed my outlook, matured a bit, and become a libertarian. Their philosophy makes the most sense, but no one seems to listen.

If you are a former liberal turned libertarian I highly recommend http://bleedingheartlibertarians.com/. They're liberals but use a libertarian ethic framework, sort of.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#57
post #52

I posted this on my FB wall, pretty outraged, and a friend of mine who is a former federal prosecutor had this to say in response: Let me provide some context: this was certainly not unchecked or without oversight. In fact, any time phone records are requested by federal subpoena as part of a criminal investigation (which is what happened here), the subpoenas are checked by a federal grand jury and -- later in the pr…

I am a fiscal conservative and a constitutionalist (don't confuse me with a Republican). No fan of president Obama. Here is my viewpoint.

Someone in the Obama Administration wanted to brag a bit and leaked confidential information to the AP.

They blew a British agent's cover and he had to pull out of Yemen.

His Yemeni associates may now be subject to torture/imprisonment/death.

That's illegal and irresponsible. The people responsible should be tracked down and punished.

The Justice department got a warrant and obtained relevant information from the AP. Just because they are US media doesn't give them the right to publish state secrets.

I think the US government is acting properly here.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#58
post #38
post #13

Maybe my memory's failing me, but I can't think of a similarly-sized press surveillance operation by the Bush Administration. Keep in mind that under Obama, more alleged government leakers have been prosecuted than all of his predecessors combined: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-18/obama-pursuing-leak... This includes administrations that oversaw such problematic eras as the Cold War, the Vietnam War, the McCa…

We have a problem here and it is not any particular politician or political party but the assumption of almost unlimited power by our entire political leadership. They appear to believe they can do whatever they can get away with - just do it in secret or buried in an incomprehensible law or regulation. And in the rare instance our nepotistic press tries to hold them to account they simply deny and delay and deny and…

Speaking of cozy, a lot of right-wing websites are noticing that the President of CBS news is brother to one of the Obama administration's national security advisors: http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/11/top-obama-officials-brothe...

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#59
post #57
post #52

I posted this on my FB wall, pretty outraged, and a friend of mine who is a former federal prosecutor had this to say in response: Let me provide some context: this was certainly not unchecked or without oversight. In fact, any time phone records are requested by federal subpoena as part of a criminal investigation (which is what happened here), the subpoenas are checked by a federal grand jury and -- later in the pr…

I am a fiscal conservative and a constitutionalist (don't confuse me with a Republican). No fan of president Obama. Here is my viewpoint. Someone in the Obama Administration wanted to brag a bit and leaked confidential information to the AP. They blew a British agent's cover and he had to pull out of Yemen. His Yemeni associates may now be subject to torture/imprisonment/death. That's illegal and irresponsible. The p…

Why there is no Norway bombing Yemen, why there is no India bombing Libya, why there is no japan bombing Iran or whatever? WTF US/UN/ETC have to put his noise everywhere and then be very very upset if someone wants to know more about this.

Please please, dear people, you are just there to breed and provide, not to seek knowledge.

Re: Government obtains wide AP phone records in probe

#60
post #17

Are there currently any VOIP+Tor type technologies that could reasonably replace existing telephone services and prevent this sort of thing in the future?

SIP and Jingle calls can be afaik encrypted. Can those replace POTS? I don't know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZRTP

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