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U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

nytimes.com

111–120 of 241 posts

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#111
This post and (more predominantly) some of the comments seem to be swaying dangerously close to breaking the guidelines of the site...

Instead of arguing politics (ie the moral argument) it would be more interesting to discuss the reasoning behind the wire taps or the implications of such a wire tap.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#112
post #53

I am from Brazil, and I must ask: Why the US citizens and government propaganda insists that US is about freedom, when US ignores its own constitution, takes away freedom from its citizens, and most important to me, takes away freedom from citizens of other countries while claiming to do the exact opposite? I am from Brazil, and many people here remember the US backed (and enforced sometimes) rightwing government tha…

Very little of this is actually true, at least with regards to what the U.S. does internally. As flawed as the U.S. government is, it's still better than almost any government outside Western Europe, and is in some ways better than governments in Western Europe (e.g. with regard to free speech), though worse in others. The U.S. government very rarely ignores the Constitution, although many things it does are greeted…

  as far as global hegemons go, the U.S. is the most
  benevolent such entity in the history of the world.
Well, that's some real comfort. You heard it here, better than the Roman and British empires!

The reference point should be absolute moral good, not third-world dictatorships. The whole "city on a hill" idea and what have you. That is what the top-level comment is getting at: Blatant hypocrisy from a state whose denizens have proudly proclaimed it to be "the greatest country on Earth" or "the greatest nation in history", some beacon of freedom and humanism, throughout its existence: The farce that is American Exceptionalism.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#113
post #53

I am from Brazil, and I must ask: Why the US citizens and government propaganda insists that US is about freedom, when US ignores its own constitution, takes away freedom from its citizens, and most important to me, takes away freedom from citizens of other countries while claiming to do the exact opposite? I am from Brazil, and many people here remember the US backed (and enforced sometimes) rightwing government tha…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little of this is actually true, at least with regards to what the U.S. does internally. As flawed as the U.S. government is, it's still better than almost any government outside Western Europe, and is in some ways better than governments in Western Europe (e.g. with regard to free speech), though worse in others. The U.S. government very rarely ignores the Constitution, although many things it does are greeted…

as far as global hegemons go, the U.S. is the most benevolent such entity in the history of the world. Well, that's some real comfort. You heard it here, better than the Roman and British empires! The reference point should be absolute moral good, not third-world dictatorships. The whole "city on a hill" idea and what have you. That is what the top-level comment is getting at: Blatant hypocrisy from a state whose den…

Have a good time chasing platonic ideals. You can sometimes achieve them in programming; People, however, are too broken to ever achieve them in politics.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as far as global hegemons go, the U.S. is the most benevolent such entity in the history of the world. Well, that's some real comfort. You heard it here, better than the Roman and British empires! The reference point should be absolute moral good, not third-world dictatorships. The whole "city on a hill" idea and what have you. That is what the top-level comment is getting at: Blatant hypocrisy from a state whose den…

Have a good time chasing platonic ideals. You can sometimes achieve them in programming; People, however, are too broken to ever achieve them in politics.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#116
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"instead, we have the misguided actions and interactions of generally well-meaning people that are so segregated from the big picture and scared of losing their jobs that they make mistakes which snowball." That's a pretty generous supposition ... in regard to both intent and competency.

I'd much rather assume derpiness than malice. If we assume malice, well, that puts all kinds of interesting moral burdens on us, right? Better to assume agents mean well than that they are actively hostile--it is much easier to reason about.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Isn't it reasonable to assume some are competent, some are incompetent, and others are malicious?

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little of this is actually true, at least with regards to what the U.S. does internally. As flawed as the U.S. government is, it's still better than almost any government outside Western Europe, and is in some ways better than governments in Western Europe (e.g. with regard to free speech), though worse in others. The U.S. government very rarely ignores the Constitution, although many things it does are greeted…

as far as global hegemons go, the U.S. is the most benevolent such entity in the history of the world. Well, that's some real comfort. You heard it here, better than the Roman and British empires! The reference point should be absolute moral good, not third-world dictatorships. The whole "city on a hill" idea and what have you. That is what the top-level comment is getting at: Blatant hypocrisy from a state whose den…

never a good idea to make the perfect the enemy of the good

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#118
post #41
post #8

Its sad that high profile news organizations in the United States now need to use secure communication channels out of fear of being harassed by their own government.

As far as we know the government only obtained records of the timestamps and endpoints of the communication, not the content. Encryption wouldn't help there, you need something like Tor. But the problem is that in order to setup a comm channel over Tor you would have to communicate over an insecure channel to set it up. Any idea of what could be the solution for a news org?

I said secure, not encrypted, for that reason.

This isn't a problem that needs one solution, but multiple, layered ones. Communication should be disposable and deniable.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little of this is actually true, at least with regards to what the U.S. does internally. As flawed as the U.S. government is, it's still better than almost any government outside Western Europe, and is in some ways better than governments in Western Europe (e.g. with regard to free speech), though worse in others. The U.S. government very rarely ignores the Constitution, although many things it does are greeted…

as far as global hegemons go, the U.S. is the most benevolent such entity in the history of the world. Well, that's some real comfort. You heard it here, better than the Roman and British empires! The reference point should be absolute moral good, not third-world dictatorships. The whole "city on a hill" idea and what have you. That is what the top-level comment is getting at: Blatant hypocrisy from a state whose den…

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King.

Re: U.S. Secretly Obtains Two Months of A.P. Phone Records

#120
post #53

I am from Brazil, and I must ask: Why the US citizens and government propaganda insists that US is about freedom, when US ignores its own constitution, takes away freedom from its citizens, and most important to me, takes away freedom from citizens of other countries while claiming to do the exact opposite? I am from Brazil, and many people here remember the US backed (and enforced sometimes) rightwing government tha…

As a Canadian, we see the same sort of hypocrisy regarding our natural resources, especially our wildlife. Provincial travel advertisments show sprawling forests, but what's really happening at a frightening rate is their destruction because of urban sprawl and deforestation.

Land developers are wiping out wildlife habitats with no conscience as to the animal life they're destroying so they can put up ugly, treeless cookie-cutter suburban neighborhoods for a quick buck.

What Canada is supposedly famous for is becoming no longer. Municipal and federal governments would rather have more highways and big box stores.

I wrote about it at length here: http://allsprawldown.com/activism/a-big-reason-canadians-are...

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