Felipe, I'm completely unsurprised you got banned. This post is just continuation of the behaviour you can't see. People are human. It doesn't matter if you're technically in the right, or that you think things should be some way - if you piss people off, they are going to tell you to stop pissing them off and then eventually they will do something rash. In this post you just drag out the dirty laundry again and go t…
Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
21–30 of 91 posts
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#22"Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. Olav's comment about google plus and mailing lists suggest to me that Felipe has been on a crusade about this topic and using and soap box he could find. As any sort of community or project admin, the behavior of being told no and the constantly raising the issue and trying to drum up support is really annoying and likely to result in this type of situation. I mean, I haven't…
And that is the moment someone who knows how to handle such a situation takes his fingers of the keyboard, gets a tea, takes a stroll or does whatever he needs to do to be able to handle the situation rationally later. The others? They behave like a three year old: "I will NEVER play with you again!!!!" and swing the ban hammer.
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#23My suggestion would be to forget about this and move on. No offense to anyone but GNOME is just dreadful and there are so many other Linux/FOSS projects that desperately need people. Help them out instead.
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#24And this is what happen when two dicks-wannabe nerds meet online. I'm tired of watching argues like this.
You have people who don't have English as a first language talking to people.
You have people with varying levels of interpersonal skills - some pretty poor. For example, people with Asperger's can be pretty blunt when talking to others. And they don't always have best modern help to sort that out.
People tend to be protective of work they've done. Especially when it's being "attacked".
And people can be unconstructive in their criticism - "that sucks!" "You're an idiot for doing it like that!"
People can be very attached to certain models.
These combine into a massive clusterfuck. The fact the world runs on so much open source software really is remarkable.
As to fixing this stuff:
1) Create clear divides between technical lists and things that anyone can comment on.
2) Create clear rules about expected behaviour. ("Only technical comments"; "patches get attention, whines don't"; "comment on the code, not the coder"; "polite is good, constructive is essential, flames get you banned".)
2a) Have people to enforces those
3) Have some kind of comment limiting mechanism to prevent flames breaking out. Mostly this is user behaviour, but slowing comments might help to prevent a few flames turning into a forest fire.
4) Have experienced community members acting as mediators. Often flames happen when two people mostly agree with each other but are mis-interpreting a small point, or there are language problems, or some such.
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#25Felipe, I'm completely unsurprised you got banned. This post is just continuation of the behaviour you can't see. People are human. It doesn't matter if you're technically in the right, or that you think things should be some way - if you piss people off, they are going to tell you to stop pissing them off and then eventually they will do something rash. In this post you just drag out the dirty laundry again and go t…
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#26It's hard to tell if GNOME developers are defensive because they are under attack or if they are under attack because they are defensive. Bottom line: These people, weather they are arrogant, impolite or unsympathetic to users does not refute the fact that they are giving their time to the project. GNOME has been under fire since the famous GNOME 3 release and I would understand the remaining developers to be a littl…
It started somewhere near the top, and the culture's settled in. I've written off the project a long time back.
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#27"Just stop" sounds like a warning to me. Olav's comment about google plus and mailing lists suggest to me that Felipe has been on a crusade about this topic and using and soap box he could find. As any sort of community or project admin, the behavior of being told no and the constantly raising the issue and trying to drum up support is really annoying and likely to result in this type of situation. I mean, I haven't…
> I mean, I haven't used gnome in years or followed the community, but just reading the OP's post defending himself made me want to ban him. We can argue all day about a platonic world of argument and enlightenment where tone doesn't matter... But we live in the real world with real people. And that is the moment someone who knows how to handle such a situation takes his fingers of the keyboard, gets a tea, takes a s…
Felipe made is point in hist first post, refuting the arguments that needed to be. The following posts (by both Olav and Felipe) are just noise. The whole thread turns into a silly "I want the last word" dispute.
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#28I mean, on the server side, the worst kind of flamewar I've seen is TJ Holowaychuk disagreeing with Rails defaulting to CoffeeScript. It got us some drama and pictures of cats.
But end-user OSS? That's been a pit of hate and anger ever since Torvalds posted a kernel to some newsgroup.
In fact, it's one of the things that keep me from trying out stuff like Linux for real. If a question like 'which audio driver do i best install?' can only be answered by reading through a multi-year flamewar, why would I bother?
Now, since i've never really tried (or well, not in the past 14 years), the above might be entirely untrue. Still, to me, 'end-user FOSS' and 'hate and anger' are somehow symbolically linked.
Does this make sense? Do people recognise this? Or am I simply a closed-minded fool too fast in his judgment?
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I mean, I haven't used gnome in years or followed the community, but just reading the OP's post defending himself made me want to ban him. We can argue all day about a platonic world of argument and enlightenment where tone doesn't matter... But we live in the real world with real people. And that is the moment someone who knows how to handle such a situation takes his fingers of the keyboard, gets a tea, takes a s…
To be fair, they should both have taken your advice. Felipe made is point in hist first post, refuting the arguments that needed to be. The following posts (by both Olav and Felipe) are just noise. The whole thread turns into a silly "I want the last word" dispute.
(Just in case anyone wonders: I was - as far as I know - never on the receiving end of a ban hammer, but more than once on the giving end.)
Re: Another user/developer banned from GNOME's bugzilla without any warning
#30And this is what happen when two dicks-wannabe nerds meet online. I'm tired of watching argues like this.
There is a problem with developer communication. It's an unsolved problem. There's probably some interesting research to be done about it. You have people who don't have English as a first language talking to people. You have people with varying levels of interpersonal skills - some pretty poor. For example, people with Asperger's can be pretty blunt when talking to others. And they don't always have best modern help…
I also think that big part of the problem with developer communication comes from the fact that many/most of us taught ourselves how to code when young. That gives you a very high self-pride, as you were doing complicated stuff while your friends were watching DBZ. If you are lucky enough then you find out that you don't know a shit about programming, but that's not always the case.