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Samsung is hurting Android

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Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#91

Post by saratogacx »

yareally wrote: post #78
fpgeek wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung implemented multi-window exactly as Google wanted: opt-in instead of opt-out or forced. I highly doubt the Android team is unhappy about that. Several top Google apps support it (Chrome, Gmail, Maps, Talk and YouTube, judging from my Note 2). Given that (and the many other windowing hacks I've seen including ones by such obscure companies as Facebook and Sony) I expect some sort of cleaner, official multi/flo…

I wouldn't mind multiview becoming the norm with official Android API support for apps made to support it. I didn't realize Samsung made it opt-in, but that makes much more sense and calms my fears about it. We can already have multiple fragments displayed in an app, so it would make sense the next logical step is to have multiple apps open with some limitations and restrictions via official support in the Android AP…

The multi-window feature and the google app support were available with the note 1 with the android 4.x update. Adding support is almost trivial with it being a few XML lines.

There are also mods that let you multi-window any app which makes the feature much more useful.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#92

Post by Volpe »

DigitalSea wrote: post #74

Samsung will never truly ditch the platform that helped it become the number #1 mobile phone maker in the world, at least not in the next few years. While Samsung undoubtedly have a plan for Tizen, swapping out Android for Tizen is probably suicide right about now. Without Android, Samsung probably wouldn't be in the place that they are right now: highly profitable and popular. The average consumer doesn't buy a phon…

Samsung's Tizen can run android apps.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#93

Post by sbuk »

Oletros wrote: post #87
TheLegace wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya? Then why is Android share dropping and iOS gaining. http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog1.php/2013/04/08/an...

You know that, shockingly, there is a world outside USA?

Ah, the "that's only true for the US..." meme, which always lacks any kind of graph or reputable article supporting the assertion. I don't actually disbelieve it at all - Samsung have a lot of different devices on sale - but the trite assertion that 'marketshare = victory!' is entirely pointless. No, I won't search for it myself. You asserted it, so the burden of proof lies with you.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#94

Post by sbuk »

myko wrote: post #67
threeseed wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never used the Google apps on the iOS before ? They are good but not significantly better than Apple's built in ones. Apple Maps may have less quality data but has a much better UI and uses a lot less data. Google Now is pointless compared to the genuinely useful Android version. Chrome is slower in most cases than Safari and not integrated with the rest of the OS. And really all their other apps simply aren…

> They are good but not significantly better than Apple's built in ones. I guess I'll agree to disagree here. Apple's first party apps significantly behind Google's in my opinion. > Unfortunately Apple just doesn't give third party apps any room to expand beyond its tiny little sandbox. This is unfortunate, but it looks like Google is working hard to make its own applications interop nicely and directly, even with th…

"Apple's first party apps significantly behind Google's in my opinion."

Care to elaborate?

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#95

Post by snogglethorpe »

TheLegace wrote: post #88
igravious wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be the sole voice of sanity. The Trusted Reviews article is a badly written illogical pile of mish-mash. And you can quote me on that. I've read most of the comments here as well and they're well wide of the mark. Android is here to stay, Samsung are not going to make any headway with Tizen. Firefox OS does not stand a chance in my opinion, though I admire their efforts. I still use Firefox the browser…

I so incredibly disagree that Android is Linux. I mean in a technical sense that is true since well it is the Linux kernel. But there is the argument that Linux is not Linux without GNU tools, build systems, terminals and *root access. I stress the last one, the day I can ssh into my phone and install/add repositories, setup scripts, who knows I might actually make my life easier and for god sakes develop with whatev…

To be fair though, it's vastly closer than anything else around. You can get shell access—and it's a bourne shell, with environment variables, piping, control-structures, etc (it even has emacs-style command-line editing!)—add a C compiler, etc, on an unrooted Android phone.

It's not really Linux the way we usually know it (just the non-standard filesystem layout ensures that), but typing "cat /proc/meminfo" into a shell and seeing the expected result, and using ls, printenv, df, etc, to explore, really makes it feel pretty familiar to someone used to Linux or other unix-style systems. [It also seems to use the standard linux/unix group mechanism for granting app permissions: if you type "id" to the shell, you'll see the permissions the terminal app holds listed as groups it belongs to.]

The end result is that it really does feel like "Linux with a twist" rather than something alien.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#96

Post by sbuk »

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #6
raganwald wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fighting Google is the lesser of several evils. There are three companies doing serious mobile business: Apple, Amazon, and Samsung. All of them are at war with Google one way or another. Everyone playing "nice" with Google is losing money and/or insignificant. They're going down the same road that the PC vendors went down playing by Microsoft's rules. It looked like a different game at the outset because Google wasn…

This might sound crazy, but it seems that Google are trying to do the same to Apple as well. Obviously they won't switch to Android, but most consumers don't really care about the OS. Nobody can replace Google's apps - Apple can't, Samsung will fail if/when they try. By placing their apps on iOS, and essentially being the best of breed in every category, the long game seems to be to relegate Apple into the realm of t…

"By placing their apps on iOS, and essentially being the best of breed in every category..." I have to say that this is a stretch. Their mapping app is worse than Apple from a UX perspective. Granted the data is better, but Apple are improving very quickly in this concern. The Gmail app isn't even the best Gmail app on the platform, and their anti-user stance (getting rid of ActiveSync, not supporting push on other devices) is the only reason Mail isn't particularly great with Gmail. Conversely AS/Exchange, Hotmail/Outlook, Yahoo! and iCloud mail all work really well with Mail. The Google app itself is riddled with bugs that made the last update practically unusable and Now useless. The other apps barring Chrome, which does have issues but are out of Googles control, seem to be abandonware. For me, if you are already locked into the Google ecosystem, then Android is the obvious choice. However Google, IMHO, are playing dirty on this front.

"...they could all become fronts for Google's apps." Which would, IMHO, be disastrous for consumers and the open web. Google already have far too much control in the web space, getting close to ubiquity. Samsung, at this juncture, are the lesser of two evils. However, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could spit.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#97

Post by igravious »

TheLegace wrote: post #88
igravious wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to be the sole voice of sanity. The Trusted Reviews article is a badly written illogical pile of mish-mash. And you can quote me on that. I've read most of the comments here as well and they're well wide of the mark. Android is here to stay, Samsung are not going to make any headway with Tizen. Firefox OS does not stand a chance in my opinion, though I admire their efforts. I still use Firefox the browser…

I so incredibly disagree that Android is Linux. I mean in a technical sense that is true since well it is the Linux kernel. But there is the argument that Linux is not Linux without GNU tools, build systems, terminals and *root access. I stress the last one, the day I can ssh into my phone and install/add repositories, setup scripts, who knows I might actually make my life easier and for god sakes develop with whatev…

I have a Gentoo server and dev box.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#98

Post by anuraj »

Android has never been particularly open; never in the sense of FOSS. Samsung is in the business of selling devices and their business strategy is winning at the moment. I am sure Google too is looking for business though their scale dwarfs in comparison to Samsung.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#99

Post by fpgeek »

sbuk wrote: post #93
Oletros wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know that, shockingly, there is a world outside USA?

Ah, the "that's only true for the US..." meme, which always lacks any kind of graph or reputable article supporting the assertion. I don't actually disbelieve it at all - Samsung have a lot of different devices on sale - but the trite assertion that 'marketshare = victory!' is entirely pointless. No, I won't search for it myself. You asserted it, so the burden of proof lies with you.

Here's some relatively recent worldwide estimates: http://blog.laptopmag.com/android-powers-devices-worldwide

You might want to pay particular attention to the device category Android is running away with. I found it surprising.

Separately, the timing of that article (dated April 8, 2013) makes its manipulation transparent. Talking about Android's US market share peaking mere weeks before the 2013 flagships (GS4, HTC One) land is almost as stupid as claiming the iPhone has peaked based on the quarter before the new model is released. Of course, the bases are covered because they mention the GS4 launch lower down, but somehow that isn't reflected in the clickbait title.

Re: Samsung is hurting Android

#100

Post by coldtea »

>Samsung is hurting Android

Maybe. But without Samsung there is NO Android.

No mobile maker makes any money of it worth mentioning, including Google, besides Samsung. The disparity is so big, it's not even funny. The majority of Android devices shipped ARE Samsung.

If Samsung was to stop shipping Android stuff, maybe someone else would pick up. But if Samsung Android devices were to disappear altogether magically, Android would have like 10-15% market share.

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