41–50 of 58 posts
Is there any way for a Vim session to span multiple monitors? Multiple terminals? That is what I would like more than anything.
but i bet what you want is to use the system clipboard, so that you can copy from one buffer in one window to another.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It sounds like you completely missed the parent's and my point. hjkl are only marginally better than the arrows: kkkk is just as silly as and their only benefit is in not moving the right hand to the arrow keys at the beginning and end of the sequence. Other than that hitting k 4 times to move the cursor 4 lines above doesn't offer much that the arrows don't. 4k is obviously better but yeah, it also works with the ar…
The other movement commands you mention aren't "better" than the hjkl keys. They are very useful, but accomplish different things. For example, the h key moves one character left. Those other movement keys aren't going to do that for you except in special circumstances. That said, no one is suggesting that in vim the only movement keys one should use are hjkl. Those other movement keys you mention are also very impor…
Whatever, I had a nice demonstration where the same simple task used 39 keypresses with only k + h, 9 keypresses with k + b and only 5-6 keypresses with a backward search. After that, the last paragraph went something like this:
"hjkl have their place in our arsenal, obviously, but focusing on them like if they were the apex of productivity and the single key to mastering Vim is both misleading and absurd."
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Also, the only reason why Vim uses hjkl for movement is because the terminal on which Bill Joy created Vi didn't have physical arrows. The whole homerow/efficiency business is just post facto rationalizing.
Really impressive. Very creative and quite polished.
You're kidding, right? I want to like this game; I love vim, and I agree that the premise of the game is very creative. But the execution is vastly below average. They are using free graphics [1], annoying sounds, and they force the user through a strict tutorial instead of encouraging them to explore [2]. They ask for more (25$) than the vast majority of indie games on Steam [3], all of which are a lot more polished…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The other movement commands you mention aren't "better" than the hjkl keys. They are very useful, but accomplish different things. For example, the h key moves one character left. Those other movement keys aren't going to do that for you except in special circumstances. That said, no one is suggesting that in vim the only movement keys one should use are hjkl. Those other movement keys you mention are also very impor…
Fuck, I just lost 20 fucking minutes of typing. What's with that stupid "link expired" bullshit? Whatever, I had a nice demonstration where the same simple task used 39 keypresses with only k + h, 9 keypresses with k + b and only 5-6 keypresses with a backward search. After that, the last paragraph went something like this: "hjkl have their place in our arsenal, obviously, but focusing on them like if they were the a…
But, you probably wasted your time anyway because no one is disputing with you that you that there are quicker ways to navigate in Vim than exclusive use of hjkl. The argument is that there is a place for them in navigation, and that using them over the arrow keys keeps your hands on the home row allowing a smoother transition between navigation and input.
Now, you may disagree that there's any loss by using the arrow keys in your workflow. And you may be right. But that certainly does not make the claim "hjkl are useless" universally accurate--which is what started this thread down this argument.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fuck, I just lost 20 fucking minutes of typing. What's with that stupid "link expired" bullshit? Whatever, I had a nice demonstration where the same simple task used 39 keypresses with only k + h, 9 keypresses with k + b and only 5-6 keypresses with a backward search. After that, the last paragraph went something like this: "hjkl have their place in our arsenal, obviously, but focusing on them like if they were the a…
Next time, at least in Chrome, you can hit the back button to return to the page you were at with your text in tact. But, you probably wasted your time anyway because no one is disputing with you that you that there are quicker ways to navigate in Vim than exclusive use of hjkl. The argument is that there is a place for them in navigation, and that using them over the arrow keys keeps your hands on the home row allow…
My original comment was only about hjkl vs motions: I didn't bring arrows in the discussion, the parent did. Also my claim was:
> hjkl are almost worthless compared to other means of navigation
and I stand by it. I didn't write "hjkl are useless" or advocate the use of arrows vs hjkl, IIRC.
hjkl are better than the arrows for short range movements but those short range movements (1-3 cols, 1-3 lines) make up such a small part of the movements we actually do all day long that focusing on hjkl is just absurd.
All the hjkl advocacy can be reduced to "Do whatever you'd do with arrows but with hjkl because it helps you save all those right hand movements… and home row." But char-by-car and line-by-line movement is just as slow and bad with hjkl as it is with arrows.
Saving a few slight translations of the right hand is so worthless compared to the thousands of hjkl or arrows you save with bBwWeEfFtT/?{}() and friends… unless we try to save our wrists but why make productivity claims, then?
What about the folks using Dvorak keyboard??
Read here: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Using_Vim_with_the_Dvorak_keyboard... Are there many guys using Dvorak? I only met one in my whole life.
Is there anything similar for Emacs? Disclaimer: Now, stop, please. I know of Emacs manual, tutorial and all the other built-in docs. Stop telling me to use them, because I won't, thank you. I'm recently learning Emacs - I reached high proficiency in Vim and I thought about learning it's competitor, just to feel comfortable with them both. I like Lisps, so that's another motivation. I had a hard time in the beginning…
> Now, stop, please. I know of Emacs manual, tutorial and all the other built-in docs. Stop telling me to use them, because I won't, thank you. Why not? If there are problems like they're hard to read, understand, you've tried them and they don't match your learning style, etc., then it would be better to say that instead. As written, this isn't very constructive since you don't explain why you find fault with the do…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Next time, at least in Chrome, you can hit the back button to return to the page you were at with your text in tact. But, you probably wasted your time anyway because no one is disputing with you that you that there are quicker ways to navigate in Vim than exclusive use of hjkl. The argument is that there is a place for them in navigation, and that using them over the arrow keys keeps your hands on the home row allow…
The back button didn't keep my text. My original comment was only about hjkl vs motions: I didn't bring arrows in the discussion, the parent did. Also my claim was: > hjkl are almost worthless compared to other means of navigation and I stand by it. I didn't write "hjkl are useless" or advocate the use of arrows vs hjkl, IIRC. hjkl are better than the arrows for short range movements but those short range movements (…
Everyone agrees that using w to move a word at a time is better than llllllll. No one is arguing with you about that. So in that sense, we all agree that for certain movements, hjkl really is worthless compared to alternatives.
But if you want to move a few characters, there's no better option than hljk. Second best are the arrow keys. But there's really no reason to move your hand out of position just to move one character when your finger is already on the key which will do it.
So, I don't think it's at all accurate to say in general that hjkl is worthless compared to other means of navigation. They have their place, and they're quite valuable there since all other means of navigation are almost worthless compared to hjkl when moving a few characters.
Is there anything similar for Emacs? Disclaimer: Now, stop, please. I know of Emacs manual, tutorial and all the other built-in docs. Stop telling me to use them, because I won't, thank you. I'm recently learning Emacs - I reached high proficiency in Vim and I thought about learning it's competitor, just to feel comfortable with them both. I like Lisps, so that's another motivation. I had a hard time in the beginning…
> Now, stop, please. I know of Emacs manual, tutorial and all the other built-in docs. Stop telling me to use them, because I won't, thank you. Why not? If there are problems like they're hard to read, understand, you've tried them and they don't match your learning style, etc., then it would be better to say that instead. As written, this isn't very constructive since you don't explain why you find fault with the do…
While the docs are really impressive in terms of coverage, they are both structured in a way I don't like and use far too many words for descriptions of single thing. They are intended as a book, not as a cheat sheet, and I strongly prefer the latter.
The docs assume no prior knowledge about anything related to editing text. That makes it discuss many boring and not that important things and the problem is that one has no way of knowing at a high level which chapter will be important and which won't.
That's also true for tutorial, which makes a huge undertaking from learning to jump to the beginning of next word. That's ok for someone who used notepad earlier, but irritating for me.
Whatever cheat sheet-like tutorials there are, they are incomplete instead. I would like to have a list of all possible commands and elisp functions in one flat document. There is probably no such document or at least I wasn't able to find it.
And then there's an issue with some of the Emacs users, who are a bit more enthusiastic than they should. It's not hard to find answers that say that what someone wants is not the emacs way and that it should stop wanting it. A page or two down the thread there is code posted, no doubt, but that somewhat kills the pleasure of learning.
In short: I prefer short references in the cheat sheet format for learning an editor. Instead of grouping by topic, such reference should group by importance. There is probably nothing like that in Emacs docs or other materials. I guess that interactive game or tutorial would be like that, because probably the most used shortcuts for the game would be the most important ones. And so I asked.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whoever downvoted this guy was wrong. hjkl are useless. I gained vim proficiency through a few years of using it. Funny thing is that I never, ever used these keys for navigation: at the beginning I mapped arrows to them and later I just stopped using them altogether, outside of a few rare cases like block selection. Commands for moving around are listed here: http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Moving_around . Note the profou…
Wait. You don't use hjkl and you also don't use the arrow keys anymore. So how would you, say, move left one character? Most experienced vim users consider movement using the hjkl keys to be essential to the efficient use of vim. Some even go so far as to recommend unmapping the arrow keys altogether. As someone who's used vim for about 20 years, I have to agree with them. If you don't use the hjkl keys for movement,…
Easy:
:call cursor('.', col('.')+1)
I can't touch type, I'm sorry, I know little kittens will die because of me.
"You'll find yourself becoming an hjkl master in no time."
I don't want to.
It's that simple - one has to decide when he should stop searching for efficiency and should start focusing on other thing. For me this moment came when I saw how efficient and pleasant I can be with 4w or 2(ciw. Also, for me - without touch typing - hjkl is meaningless. I'm that much slower than you that moving my hand to arrows doesn't slow me down at all.
Even if I could touch type, I still wouldn't be convinced. I think that M,L,H together with word, sentence and paragraph movements is much more of a gain than hjkl anyway. And I just DON'T move my cursor by one character, because I find ciw, ca" and friends much more convenient.