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US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

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Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#171

Post by hga »

nayefc wrote: post #170
hga wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why screw with that?" Exactly. This period of decreasing violent crime is correlated with a massive, near nationwide relaxation of gun controls that go back to the post-Civil war period. Correlation does not suggest let alone prove causation, but desiring a reversal in a trend that correlates with what in theory is your objective should give one pause.

Do you actually believe this? This makes me laugh... I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with guns people have here in the US.

Do you deny either of the facts cited?

The crime decrease was extensively discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5674263

The most visible and perhaps biggest of the relaxations of gun control is the nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry regimes, now around 42 states and 2/3rds of the population, see this for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_S...; the recovery through political means of the fundimental right to bear arms is no small thing. You may laugh about my "filthy obsession", but the facts on the ground are that every time I exit my residence, I can carry a concealed handgun, and almost every time I do. That wasn't true here in my home state before 2004.

As for a study, not only are there plenty, but since you've made up your mind, for what purposes do you desire one?

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#172

Post by protomyth »

nayefc wrote: post #170
hga wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Why screw with that?" Exactly. This period of decreasing violent crime is correlated with a massive, near nationwide relaxation of gun controls that go back to the post-Civil war period. Correlation does not suggest let alone prove causation, but desiring a reversal in a trend that correlates with what in theory is your objective should give one pause.

Do you actually believe this? This makes me laugh... I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with guns people have here in the US.

I believe it. I also have a cousin who is only alive because he had a gun (wild dogs[1]). I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with authority figures anti-gun folks seem to have.

1) Once again, if you don't want the dog, drop it off at a no-kill shelter - not out in the country. Dogs will turn feral, group up, and try to kill livestock and people. Life isn't a fairy tale.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#173

Post by nayefc »

hga wrote: post #171
nayefc wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe this? This makes me laugh... I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with guns people have here in the US.

Do you deny either of the facts cited? The crime decrease was extensively discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5674263 The most visible and perhaps biggest of the relaxations of gun control is the nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry regimes, now around 42 states and 2/3rds of the population, see this for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_S... ; the re…

I can show you 10 studies to counter each study you just posted, so all these "studies" are useless. At the end of the day, 11,000 people are dying in the US per year vs. only tens or hundreds in other countries where they have proper gun laws. I know the US population is higher, so let's take it by ratio: the rate per 100,000 population per year in the US is 10.20. The US ranks 57 in the world. In the UK, the rate is 0.25, and they rank 5. Japan ranks 1st with a rate of 0.07. It doesn't look like you care about ranking high with the rest of the civil societies in the world. I frankly couldn't care less about the "right to bear arms". A right made in the 1700's when militias were there to fight the British. You don't realise we're 300 years ahead now, do you?

And yes, I did make up my mind a long time ago. I simply can't wrap my head around two things: guns & death penalty. To me, these are primitive issues that if we're really a civil society, we really shouldn't be discussing them in 2013.

I think we should end the argument. A HN discussion will not stop you from carrying a concealed weapon, nor will it alter my views.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#174

Post by [deleted] »

hga wrote: post #171
nayefc wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe this? This makes me laugh... I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with guns people have here in the US.

Do you deny either of the facts cited? The crime decrease was extensively discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5674263 The most visible and perhaps biggest of the relaxations of gun control is the nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry regimes, now around 42 states and 2/3rds of the population, see this for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_S... ; the re…

[deleted]

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#175

Post by hga »

nayefc wrote: post #173
hga wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you deny either of the facts cited? The crime decrease was extensively discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5674263 The most visible and perhaps biggest of the relaxations of gun control is the nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry regimes, now around 42 states and 2/3rds of the population, see this for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_S... ; the re…

I can show you 10 studies to counter each study you just posted, so all these "studies" are useless. At the end of the day, 11,000 people are dying in the US per year vs. only tens or hundreds in other countries where they have proper gun laws. I know the US population is higher, so let's take it by ratio: the rate per 100,000 population per year in the US is 10.20. The US ranks 57 in the world. In the UK, the rate i…

"Facts are stubborn things", and I was quoting facts, not "studies" in the sense of the word as we've been using it. E.g. the fatality data comes from the CDC, and the sources are, per http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/fatal/help/faq.htm#Where:

"Where does WISQARS get its data?

"Death data come from a national mortality database compiled by CDC's National Center for Health Statistics. This database contains information from death certificates filed in state vital-statistics offices and includes causes of death reported by attending physicians, medical examiners, and coroners. It also includes demographic information about decedents reported by funeral directors, who obtain that information from family members and other informants. Population data come from the Bureau of the Census. These data are based on information gathered in censuses and on estimation procedures conducted in non-census years."

Similarly, it is a hard fact, based on legislation enacted, that shall issue concealed carry has swept the nation 1987 (Florida) to 2011 (Wisconsin and Iowa).

That you dismiss these as "studies" is about as disturbing as you dismissing the rule of law, which after all is the only thing that stands between you and the barbarians....

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#176

Post by hga »

nayefc wrote: post #173
hga wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you deny either of the facts cited? The crime decrease was extensively discussed here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5674263 The most visible and perhaps biggest of the relaxations of gun control is the nationwide sweep of shall issue concealed carry regimes, now around 42 states and 2/3rds of the population, see this for more details: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concealed_carry_in_the_United_S... ; the re…

I can show you 10 studies to counter each study you just posted, so all these "studies" are useless. At the end of the day, 11,000 people are dying in the US per year vs. only tens or hundreds in other countries where they have proper gun laws. I know the US population is higher, so let's take it by ratio: the rate per 100,000 population per year in the US is 10.20. The US ranks 57 in the world. In the UK, the rate i…

"Facts are stubborn things", and I was quoting facts, not "studies" in the sense of the word as we've been using it. E.g. the fatality data comes from the CDC, and the sources are, per http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/fatal/help/faq.htm#Where:

"Where does WISQARS get its data?

"Death data come from a national mortality database compiled by CDC's National Center for Health Statistics. This database contains information from death certificates filed in state vital-statistics offices and includes causes of death reported by attending physicians, medical examiners, and coroners. It also includes demographic information about decedents reported by funeral directors, who obtain that information from family members and other informants. Population data come from the Bureau of the Census. These data are based on information gathered in censuses and on estimation procedures conducted in non-census years."

Similarly, it is a hard fact, based on legislation enacted, that shall issue concealed carry has swept the nation 1987 (Florida) to 2011 (Wisconsin and Iowa).

That you dismiss these as "studies" is about as disturbing as you dismissing the rule of law, which after all is the only thing that stands between you and the barbarians....

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#177

Post by smsm42 »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #168
smsm42 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Unarmed non-consenting populations can and have brought down governments. e.g. in Egypt In Egypt, the power was actually taken by the military after Mubarak has resigned. If the military had supported Mubarak, you can look in Libya and Syria how it would play out. >>> side-arms won't help you against a decent army Depends what you mean by "help". You can destroy a city with a bomber, but you can not actually gove…

> It is. If the population is disarmed, the only force who decides if the government is to survive or not is the military. What I and others are saying above is that with handguns in the population, the situation is much the same.

The modern experience teaches us that it is very hard to subdue and keep under control a noncompliant and armed population, even if the army has vastly more powerful arms.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#178

Post by hga »

protomyth wrote: post #172
nayefc wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you actually believe this? This makes me laugh... I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with guns people have here in the US.

I believe it. I also have a cousin who is only alive because he had a gun (wild dogs[1]). I think we need a psychological study to see what is this filthy obsession with authority figures anti-gun folks seem to have. 1) Once again, if you don't want the dog, drop it off at a no-kill shelter - not out in the country. Dogs will turn feral, group up, and try to kill livestock and people. Life isn't a fairy tale.

http://www.examiner.com/article/la-pit-bull-attack-shows-sav...

"LA pit bull attack shows savage consequences of citizen disarmament"

"What this means is, top LA law enforcement knows perfectly well that savage beasts are preying on peaceable citizens, they are unable to stop it from happening, they know what will give those being attacked a fighting chance, and they deny them that option under force of state arms. Through their mandates, they confirm that they would rather see a 63-year-old woman mauled to death, ripped apart in the most horrible, agonizing and terrifying way conceivable, than simply have the choice to the means of defense."

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#179

Post by fleitz »

tomjen3 wrote: post #111
fleitz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just another file on the defcad site, usual government confusion around files hosted on the internet. You can pick up most of what you need to know about anti-tank warheads from a Tom Clancy book, or any library book about shaped charges. For most people an anti-tank warhead is going to be useless in the context of how to disable a tank.

Can you expand on your last sentence?

You need a way to deliver the warhead perpendicular to armour plate of the tank with sufficient force to disable the various safeties. If you don't accomplish all those things then the shaped charge will do virtually nothing to the armour plate.

As far as I know it's difficult to 3D print 88mm cannons.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#180

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

smsm42 wrote: post #177
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is. If the population is disarmed, the only force who decides if the government is to survive or not is the military. What I and others are saying above is that with handguns in the population, the situation is much the same.

The modern experience teaches us that it is very hard to subdue and keep under control a noncompliant and armed population, even if the army has vastly more powerful arms.

Which modern experience would that be? Citation needed.
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