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My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

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Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#131

Post by acdha »

Avenger42 wrote: post #122
jroseattle wrote: post #102

As absurd as this situation was, it really doesn't surprise me in the least. Having been an independent consultant for several years, I've had some client requests that were real humdingers. My favorite of all-time (I'm paraphrasing, but this was a real conversation): Client: We would like a fixed-price bid on this project. Me: Well, let's talk about your project. What's the scope? Client: We're working on a list, wh…

What's the polite way to tell them "there's not a chance I, or any other reasonable person, would consider this request" and keep the door open to future work? Or is it not worth keeping that door open?

I used to give them one attempt at education as to why software development isn't off-the-shelf if it seemed reasonable that they might simply be new to that sort of project. In practice, though, it was almost always the case that they were simply being unrealistic and hoping to find someone new / desperate who would give them more than what they paid for.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#132

Post by goostavos »

jroseattle wrote: post #102

As absurd as this situation was, it really doesn't surprise me in the least. Having been an independent consultant for several years, I've had some client requests that were real humdingers. My favorite of all-time (I'm paraphrasing, but this was a real conversation): Client: We would like a fixed-price bid on this project. Me: Well, let's talk about your project. What's the scope? Client: We're working on a list, wh…

Sounds like every conversation I've ever had on oDesk..

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#133

Post by finnw »

learc83 wrote: post #113
rayiner wrote: post #83

This answer is great: "This is the right answer. In business, when someone asks you do something extra the correct answer is "Yes I can do that. It will cost you $X." Make the other person say no if you really don't want to do something. Charge a ridiculous amount for it. Of course, there is the danger that they will agree which is why you charge something that would still be happy with. I would probably want it up-f…

The problem I'd have with doing this is that it would be difficult to think of a price I would be happy with. The customer sounds like the type who would use this video to nitpick everything . ------ On June 1st from 11:03-11:07 you spent your time on google searching for something called an API. I demand you deduct 4 minutes from my bill. ------ Then if you get tired of dealing with it he can trash your reputation a…

> Let's face it, if someone has hundreds of hours of footage of your work, they can find problems.

Yes but they will have to spend hundreds of their own time to do that (and if they intend to sue you to get their money back, also a lawyer's time.) I wouldn't worry - they will lose their own job long before they find enough evidence to harm your reputation.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#134

Post by pnathan »

IsaacL wrote: post #19

This customer sounds like a bad apple and should be fired, but there is some justification for such an idea. ODesk enforces the use of their time tracking software for hourly projects. Their staff economist, John Joseph-Horton, has some interesting papers about the justification for this. He argues it is actually in the interests of freelancers to have such a system in place. Basically, freelancers prefer to be paid…

In my screwing around with oDesk, I've selected flat per-project fees; no snooping and its a lot easier not to worry about hourly fees and angry clients imo.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#135

Post by neogodless »

What is your customer paying you to provide? I've had an issue with "time-based" cost for a long time. I've done freelance work since 2001, and I use time to estimate my projects (very roughly) and even to invoice it (based on what I had estimated for them). Many clients are comfortable with that. On larger projects, I even paid other developers and had them submit their time to get paid. But I have never tracked my own time or outlined it for a client. In fact, with those other developers, I just wanted to know "how much" time they spent so I could pay them. The applications we worked on had the features implemented as requested. The client was happy with what was delivered to them.

While I did not track my time, I often found that I spent less time than I estimated. I say that because my freelance was on some evenings and weekends, and it simply didn't add up to a great amount of time. Once, I had a client over time, that often paid late, and we stopped working together when he had an outstanding bill. Much later, he contacted me with an urgent request. I got up front payment for twice what I estimated. Then I dug into the project and completed it in a tiny fraction of the time it took me to do it.

If you contractually agree to give clients "dedicated time being truly productive towards creating the requested end result", then I suppose you really need to be meticulous about tracking your time and providing records of how that time was used to move the project forward. I'd really rather not get in the habit of selling my time at all. I'm selling my ability to reach your objective, to build what you want to use. We'll define to the best of our ability what I'll be providing to you, we'll agree on the price, and then we'll measure our success on my delivery to you and your payment to me. What happens in between is of my concern, and it is in my best interest to spend my time effectively and perform efficiently.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#137

Post by neogodless »

ebbv wrote: post #136

I'd say "Sure thing, you send me a video of your 8 hour work day and I'll send you one of mine."

Yes - I need to see where this money you're going to pay me with is coming from. Each step of the process. Please trace it back to when the money was printed while you're at it and include all labor and transactions that took place since then that made it possible today for you to transfer it me.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#138

Post by bulatb »

geon wrote: post #130
carbocation wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is always some amount of money that is worth the trouble. Now, it may be some amount of money that cannot be paid by any entity aside from governments, Exxon, Apple, and a few others, but it is some amount of money nonetheless.

> There is always some amount of money BS. Happiness as a function of wealth is not a linear curve. After the first few millions, a hundred millions or a billion isn't that a big deal. Therefore, if the price to justify some headache or discomfort is above a million or so, just getting rid of the headache is more valuable.

Hundreds of millions is two orders of magnitude more money than "the first few millions." To me that seems pretty significant. And even more so when you factor in how many more things (or even classes of things) you can buy with $10E8 vs. $10E6.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#139

Post by Silhouette »

smackfu wrote: post #54
ZoFreX wrote: post #32

Something I dealt with a lot in oil & gas engineering, and have never personally witnessed in software engineering, is a "change order". The contract is signed. At this point, if you deliver on your end of the deal, they have to deliver on theirs†. If they want anything other than what is in that contract - additions, changes, removals - you send them a change order. This is a new document for both parties to sign, c…

This is extremely common in corporate software engineering, where a contract specifies exactly what will be delivered. In practice, those change requests are usually rejected, because the people with control of the money aren't the people using the product, and the customer ends up paying for something they aren't happy with. A lot of Agile methodologies are a response to this extremely strict change control.

A lot of Agile methodologies are a response to this extremely strict change control.

Which is useful in some contexts, but also why Agile isn't taken seriously in others. The most popular Agile methodologies (if that isn't itself an oxymoron...) are fundamentally incompatible with processes and practices that can be useful in real projects, particularly very large projects where there are many participants to co-ordinate and many stakeholders with an interest in the results but not necessarily the same interest. At some point, a more formal process is the only way you can get anything useful done, and that includes a sensible but controlled process for handling changing requirements.

Re: My customer wants me to record a video of how I develop his software product

#140

Post by superchink »

passerinelabs wrote: post #78
srik wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All codes have been grabbed; saving you time to check. That said, the codes were a nice gesture. Will definitely put it in my list of apps to watch.

Wow. Here's 25 more: http://pastebin.com/r2KVSmXp I'm happy to hear any feedback: andrew at passerinelabs.com or @passerinelabs on Twitter.

Damn. Missed out. All these are used again.
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