Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

animals.oreilly.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 61 posts

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#21

Post by dspeyer »

apalmer wrote: post #8

I like the ingenuity of it, seems pretty counter intuitive though. I mean keeping the elephants away by bring swarms of african killer bees into close proximity with humans... not sure if the trade off is worth it. There is a reason elephants are afraid of them. That being said I am sure the farmers understand the risks more than I do, if they are down with it seems like a good solution

"Killer" bees are africanized. That is, they are european/african crossbreeds. These are simply african bees. Much safer.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#22

Post by apalmer »

durkie wrote: post #13
apalmer wrote: post #8

I like the ingenuity of it, seems pretty counter intuitive though. I mean keeping the elephants away by bring swarms of african killer bees into close proximity with humans... not sure if the trade off is worth it. There is a reason elephants are afraid of them. That being said I am sure the farmers understand the risks more than I do, if they are down with it seems like a good solution

"Killer" is a misnomer -- in the beekeeping community, for obvious reasons, they prefer the term "africanized". And it is likely that these bees, being in Africa, are or will very soon be africanized. But it is still possible to safely and enjoyably keep and tend Africanized bees -- you just require some extra precautions, like smoking the hell out of them when you're working the hive, and leaving your protective gea…

I understand that 'killer' is a misnomer, in fact i debated the use of the term but in the end chose to use it precisely because a lot of the posters in this thread don't seem to be aware that (most?) common african bee variant is what we generally refer to as the killer bee.

To go from occasionally having an interaction with Elephants, to everyday working your field in close proximity to highly aggressive bees that relatively commonly swarm intruders.. is not a guaranteed win. I don't know enough to evaluate the trade off and I said as much.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#23

Post by apalmer »

mikeash wrote: post #10
apalmer wrote: post #8

I like the ingenuity of it, seems pretty counter intuitive though. I mean keeping the elephants away by bring swarms of african killer bees into close proximity with humans... not sure if the trade off is worth it. There is a reason elephants are afraid of them. That being said I am sure the farmers understand the risks more than I do, if they are down with it seems like a good solution

Occasionally suffer a relatively harmless sting from a bee versus have elephants destroy your livelihood... doesn't really seem like a difficult choice to me.

These are african bees, what we in america refer to as 'killer' bees. These bees are highly agressive and are much more likely to swarm a perceived threat, and once swarming will not stop stinging the preceived threat for potentially hours.

Elephants which are more than 10 times as big as a person with a much thicker hide are not 'paranoid' of bees. Their fear is well justified.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#24

Post by apalmer »

dspeyer wrote: post #21
apalmer wrote: post #8

I like the ingenuity of it, seems pretty counter intuitive though. I mean keeping the elephants away by bring swarms of african killer bees into close proximity with humans... not sure if the trade off is worth it. There is a reason elephants are afraid of them. That being said I am sure the farmers understand the risks more than I do, if they are down with it seems like a good solution

"Killer" bees are africanized . That is, they are european/african crossbreeds. These are simply african bees. Much safer.

thanks for the clarification

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#26

Post by maxerickson »

simonsquiff wrote: post #16
maxerickson wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says in the article she was given an environmental prize. It's $100,000: http://www.thestandrewsprize.com/lists/2013.htm

Yes but she said in that article that the money will go towards expanding the programme: 'The recognition and financial support will enable us to expand our vital research work and protect many more rural farming families from elephant invasions.' I was friends at university with Lucy - she's amazing and the success and expansion of this work will definitely be her main motivator. She's doing it because she adores el…

I don't understand your "yes but". I was just pointing out that the signalling being asked for in the GP comment was quite real.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#27

Post by freehunter »

frogpelt wrote: post #11
msandford wrote: post #4

I wish there was some way for her to profit off of the idea not for the sake of getting rich but to encourage others to take a look at solving other problems. Profits as signalling rather than for the sake of profits.

Interesting notion. You want her to profit but not to get rich. It's amazing how being rich has been demonized by society of late. Profit for the sake of profit works as signalling just as well as any other profit.

He said "not for the sake of getting rich". This indicates he's okay with her being rich, but he hopes she becomes rich for the sake of helping with an innovative idea rather than pure profit-mongering.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#28

Post by losethos »

God says...

him, Thou art old and stricken in years, and there remaineth yet very much land to be possessed.

13:2 This is the land that yet remaineth: all the borders of the Philistines, and all Geshuri, 13:3 From Sihor, which is before Egypt, even unto the borders of Ekron northward, which is counted to the Canaanite: five lords of the Philistines; the Gazathites, and the Ashdothites, the Eshkalonites, the Gittites, and the Ekronites; also the Avites: 13:4 From the south, all the land of the Canaanites, and Mearah that is beside the Sidonians unto Aphek, to the borders of the Amorites: 13:5 And the land of the Giblites, and all Lebanon, toward the sunrising, from Baalgad under mount Hermon unto the entering into Hamath.

13:6 All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#29

Post by trhtrsh »

apalmer wrote: post #23
mikeash wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occasionally suffer a relatively harmless sting from a bee versus have elephants destroy your livelihood... doesn't really seem like a difficult choice to me.

These are african bees, what we in america refer to as 'killer' bees. These bees are highly agressive and are much more likely to swarm a perceived threat, and once swarming will not stop stinging the preceived threat for potentially hours. Elephants which are more than 10 times as big as a person with a much thicker hide are not 'paranoid' of bees. Their fear is well justified.

AS noted elsewhere, general African bees are not the same as "Africanized" bees, which are derived from a particular colony of unusually fierce bees in Brazil, not Africa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africanized_bee

Note the genetic engineering in action here. No high-tech needed DNA splicing needed to get disastrous results.

Re: Farmers, Elephants, and Bees

#30

Post by DanBC »

grimtrigger wrote: post #12

I have to wonder, why are these kind of solutions driven by outside players instead of local communities? Is there some kind of informational advantage the locals don't have? Elephants scares bees seems so simple that I'm not sure why locals weren't already doing it.

Lots of ideas seem really simple with the benefit of hindsight.

Here's an idea that took someone 30 years to come up with.

(http://www.irinnews.org/Report/94996/GLOBAL-Follow-the-fizz-...)

But it's really obvious! Why wasn't anyone doing this before?

Post reply on HN