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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

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Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#261

Post by nathan_long »

MartinCron wrote: post #107
technoslut wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.

To me it's better than listening to music I've completely flipped my thinking on this. Once you start to look at some cars and motorcycles not as vehicles, but as musical instruments, the emotional response and the economics start to make more sense.

Nobody's tuba has ever drowned out my conversation or hurt my ears from three blocks away.

If these enthusiasts could pipe the engine noise into their cabin and muffle it outside, I'd be a lot more sympathetic.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#262

Post by codeulike »

deelowe wrote: post #212
parfe wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People seem to really want the electric car to fail to the point of irrational investing. You don't short McDonald's because you dislike the Big Mac.

Investors don't work that way. They only care about making money(I know I don't care if tesla succeeds or not, but I'm certainly bearish on it). People are shorting it because it's an impractical car from an ROI perspective. Albeit a very sexy and cool one. Like others have said, you can get a BMW with more features and all the gas you want for less than a tesla(minus the wizbang PC interface) It's yet to be seen if…

Right, so investors have perfect judgement based on rational economic evaulations and if anything funny happens its because of fads and the public being irrational cough cough 2008 CDOs cough

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#263

Post by ygra »

pkroll wrote: post #249
jchrisa wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have no cars than electric cars.

Alright someone cover me: I'm going in... Why on earth would you say that?

Because it's rather inefficient moving two tons of stuff for (often enough) 80 kg of payload. I'd rather take well-functioning public transport than force everyone to own a car just to be able to go grocery shopping. It's wasteful, not only regarding the resources involved, but also for your own bank account.

(Also everything the parent of that comment said. Plenty of places are horrible to use without a car even where the distances involved are easily walkable or cycleable. We increasingly tend to plan for cars first, people second which I personally would consider a dead end and rather short-sighted.)

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#264

Post by corresation »

nilkn wrote: post #258
Groxx wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably. from the video: "This car performs better than anything we've ever tested before. Let me repeat that: not just the best electric car, but the best car. It does just about everything really really well."

That statement is a far cry from saying that every other car in this price range is mediocre. Generally, $90k cars are pretty great. The Model S might just be slightly better due to, say, the battery pack helping weight distribution. This is also just one review. It's not like this is suddenly the world's universal judgment of the Model S.

I tried to avoid going there, but there's there is the issue that Consumer Reports have generally terrible subjective reviews.

They're great at objectively layout basic facts. Poor at subjective measures.

Worse, over the past few years they've become rather attention crazed, so it's an endless sea of "iPhone not recommended"-type attention eliciting narratives.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#265

Post by corresation »

rsync wrote: post #192
pyre wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

"You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?" This cannot be overstated. I don't like a lot of the Tesla S design - both interior and exterior. Further, my use case(s) don't necessarily lend themse…

Give it a few years and a few lawsuits and Tesla will have a solution that makes you want to "kill yourself" as well.

This is a bit like PayPal versus other payment vendors (what an appropriate example!) -- it's easy for other payment vendors to talk big when they're at a small scale or dealing only in a niche, but once they're generalists those ideals tend to fall apart.

Rear-facing seats are illegal in many areas, for one, leading to export issues. The second is that anything dealing with children is a legal nightmare in general, and faces by far the most regulatory scrutiny: Having four young children, I've gone through probably half-a-dozen child-seat recall issues for various relatively minor things. Integrate that in the vehicle and you suddenly have a major corporate liability.

Tesla is an amazing company, but as they grow they will get the layers of protection that every other company eventually gains (e.g. "the most we'll do are some frame-anchored LATCH anchors that we are forced to install by the government...").

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#266

Post by khafra »

alexqgb wrote: post #193
joezydeco wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't sweat it. It actually has less to do about NC's citizens and a lot more to do with how the auto industry has dug it's claws into the legislatures of every state in the union. Your state isn't the only one in this situation. FYI this is a good podcast explaining how we got to this point: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/02/12/171814201/episode-...

The exact same fight is being waged in Texas by the established dealers there. Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation." http://www.publicintegrity.org/…

> Here's a little known but closely related fact about Congress: its membership has long contained a disproportionate number of car dealers, which leads to "wins" for America like this: "Last summer...Congress approved a financial reform bill that specifically exempted auto dealers’ financing from regulation."

I'd never heard that before, but somehow, that Congress is full of used car salesmen is the least surprising fact I've learned in a long time.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#267

Post by wskinner »

ygra wrote: post #263
pkroll wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright someone cover me: I'm going in... Why on earth would you say that?

Because it's rather inefficient moving two tons of stuff for (often enough) 80 kg of payload. I'd rather take well-functioning public transport than force everyone to own a car just to be able to go grocery shopping. It's wasteful, not only regarding the resources involved, but also for your own bank account. (Also everything the parent of that comment said. Plenty of places are horrible to use without a car even whe…

But this assumes "well-functioning public transport". In reality, this does not exist. Many, even most buses where I live are empty most of the time.

Energy efficiency issues aside, cars provide something even more valuable: isolation and privacy from the disgusting and invasive sensory overload that is public transport.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#268

Post by dredmorbius »

dkrich wrote: post #229
GFischer wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clayton Christensen at its finest :) http://www.claytonchristensen.com/books/the-innovators-dilem...

I don't think this really speaks to his point though. It's not as if the Tesla is less expensive or disruptive in any way. It's a superior product in almost every way. I don't think the innovator's dilemma applies here. I think the OP glosses over a lot of very complicated engineering and the fact the founder also happened to found a God damned space company.

So ... you're saying that Musk has disrupted disruption by turning the model on its head?

He took long-established product. And sold a _less_ capable, _more_ expensive version (the Roadster). And used that to sell a _slightly_ more expensive, but _more_ capable product (Model S). Aiming eventually for a comparably priced product with far better capabilities, but at mass-market marque.

That's actually somewhat like the Apple model, so it's not completely novel. But we're not used to thinking of cars as high-tech products (or at least haven't been for a century or so).

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#269

Post by prawks »

bane wrote: post #243
ChuckMcM wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the existing industry do this? It's pretty classic "innovator's dilemma" material but a more interesting comparison here is Fisker (probably going out of business) vs Tesla (currently making a small bit of money). Fisker did exactly what you suggest, they took a bunch of 'off the shelf' components and bolted them together into a nicely shaped car body. They 'designed' an electric car where "car" was the mos…

> Now at rev 2.0 they have a much better product than rev 1.0. But really, what's amazing to me is that rev 2.0 is better than most cars on the road today which are at rev double digits, having developed in one of the more competitive markets in the world.

I think it really is what your parent said, for any other large existing automotive company, each car is a small piece to their overall offerings. With Tesla, they have a single car that they push extremely hard to perfect, because they need to make this kind of impact to get some remote chance of a stake in the automobile industry.

Basically, rev 2.0 desperately needs to be this good, otherwise no one would pay attention.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#270

Post by jchrisa »

pkroll wrote: post #249
jchrisa wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have no cars than electric cars.

Alright someone cover me: I'm going in... Why on earth would you say that?

Cars kill more kids than anything else. Electricity won't change that.
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