“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car” • Hacker News Board

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#101

Post by masklinn » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> There's a few Model S's in my area, and they're beautiful.

They're also luxury (the base Model S is twice an Audi S4) and on limited runs (the yearly production of Tesla is the same as AMG. Not Mercedes, the subsidiary which takes standard Mercedes cars and refits them with custom hand-built engines)

I mean I could make the same complaint wondering why the rest of the industry can't be Ferrari (7000 cars/year[0]) or Bugatti, but basic thinking will help me note that the market for that kind of money is sort-of exclusive.

[0] note: Tesla has ~250 more employees than Ferrari, expects to produce ~3 times as many cars in 2013 and has roughly 20% the revenue. The comparison turns out to makes way more sense than between Tesla and Audi or BMW, let alone Tesla and Ford or VW group.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#102

Post by rubinelli » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

jfb wrote: post #50

enraged_camel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. Of course they are. They work completely differently from ICE cars and even hybrids to solve the same problem (transportation). That's the definition of a disruptive technology.

Not at $100k.

That's how many disruptive technologies start. Then their price falls until it reaches parity with the old technology, and the choice becomes a no-brainer.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#103

Post by jfb » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #96

jfb wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. The only thing that might qualify as disruptive about Tesla is their direct to customer sales model, and I have a hard time seeing how they'll get around the entrenched interests there. The Model S is by all accounts an excellent car, and I want one, but I am bearish on Tesla the company.

Considering that electric cars were held up in Christensen's books as an example of a disruptive technology that would disrupt a major market in coming decades, they qualify. The definition of a disruptive technology is one that starts off objectively inferior but which, on projected technology trends, will meet the market need at some future date. The existing market can recognize these facts well in advance, but wh…

Nice post. I can see the argument.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#104

Post by CyberDroiD » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:29 PM UTC

I always thought cars close to or over 100K were considered Exotics, but then I recalled that most big SUVs are around that price point.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#105

Post by vilaro » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:30 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #81

[deleted] wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

A few reasons come to mind. Either they are planning to do something cool, though it's not public yet, or people who have the cool / life changing ideas will go off on their own to do them. The way you keep people like Musk in companies performing is giving them a large portion of ownership of their particular endeavor, so they benefit based on how successful they are - however then they're really just becoming inves…

Apple's ability to keep Jony Ive around comes to mind. He has an incredible platform at Apple and the creative freedom to develop and release products that are used by millions all over the world. Of course given his popularity, he could probably go off on his own and still be successful, but it wouldn't be easy.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#106

Post by enraged_camel » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:31 PM UTC

jfb wrote: post #50

enraged_camel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But electric cars aren't a disruptive technology. Of course they are. They work completely differently from ICE cars and even hybrids to solve the same problem (transportation). That's the definition of a disruptive technology.

Not at $100k.

I think you are confused. Disruptive technologies can either start at the bottom of the market, or the top of the market. What makes them disruptive is that they serve the needs of a market segment that is currently not served very well by the incumbents.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#107

Post by MartinCron » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:32 PM UTC

technoslut wrote: post #5

aviswanathan wrote: post #3

I can attest to this. Initially, I was extremely skeptical that the Tesla was anything great (electric cars haven't been the highlight of the automotive industry despite repeated attempts by established manufacturers). A few weeks ago, however, I had the chance to drive a family friend's Tesla and I was stunned. The Model S seems like a car from the future. Forget the fact that it's completely electric and charges vi…

After test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.

To me it's better than listening to music

I've completely flipped my thinking on this. Once you start to look at some cars and motorcycles not as vehicles, but as musical instruments, the emotional response and the economics start to make more sense.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#108

Post by crikli » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:33 PM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #43

It's definitely a nice car, but it will interesting how much they will adjust the score (if at all) when they revisit it for their long-term use review.

This is my thought: this car has no history, period. I'm unclear as to how Consumer Reports can reliably put out a report on a vehicle that's so new to market with such (relatively) few examples on the road.

I think people really really really want the Tesla to be for real. And I hope it is. But that judgement can't be made until a few years down the road.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#109

Post by LanceH » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:35 PM UTC

chrisgd wrote: post #22

dexen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? Innovator's dilemma: at which point it's OK for a new product to cannibalize market of your established products? Think iPhone vs. iPod. In a large enterprise, it also is matter of inter-departamental power struggles.

Don't they cannibalize themselves every year then by coming out with the same model, year after year? I think the latter point may hold some sway, but I disagree with your first. Every car company has been chasing Lexus the past 10 years in this price range and they could have done something similar.

The same model year after year doesn't involve retooling billions in their current factories.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#110

Post by corresation » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:36 PM UTC

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring?

The car being reviewed is $90,000. Are competitively priced vehicles really "mediocre"?

The Tesla was not built independently. Most of its components come from the auto industry. Most of its innovations are auto-industry innovations. When you make a $90K car, you have the capacity of really optimizing the entirety of it.