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“The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

news.consumerreports.org

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Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#21

Post by pyre »

codex wrote: post #13
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

My theory: it all comes down to the maturation of the underlying technology. Tesla has been around for ten years. Why is their mainstream car only coming to market now, after all that time? Part of it is that creating a new car company takes a lot of time, but most of it is that the battery and other technologies have only recently matured enough to make EVs practical. Tesla has been waiting and waiting until this oc…

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#22

Post by chrisgd »

dexen wrote: post #15
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? Innovator's dilemma: at which point it's OK for a new product to cannibalize market of your established products? Think iPhone vs. iPod. In a large enterprise, it also is matter of inter-departamental power struggles.

Don't they cannibalize themselves every year then by coming out with the same model, year after year? I think the latter point may hold some sway, but I disagree with your first.

Every car company has been chasing Lexus the past 10 years in this price range and they could have done something similar.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#23

Post by maxerickson »

codex wrote: post #13
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

My theory: it all comes down to the maturation of the underlying technology. Tesla has been around for ten years. Why is their mainstream car only coming to market now, after all that time? Part of it is that creating a new car company takes a lot of time, but most of it is that the battery and other technologies have only recently matured enough to make EVs practical. Tesla has been waiting and waiting until this oc…

It's generous to call the Model S a mainstream car. Low volume, high price, and so on. More accessible than the previous Tesla though.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#24

Post by kgmpers »

I don't know where to ask this, but does anyone know why they bothered with the front trunk? Was it just to keep the Model S looking like a typical car, so people would be less averse to considering it? Crumple zone for accidents? Seems like it would be unnecessary weight on a car where that would effect range.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#25

Post by pyre »

dexen wrote: post #15
bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

> Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre product that's the tail end of pumping billions of dollars into R&D staffed by largely the same folks Tesla has been hiring? Innovator's dilemma: at which point it's OK for a new product to cannibalize market of your established products? Think iPhone vs. iPod. In a large enterprise, it also is matter of inter-departamental power struggles.

The issue here is that if they put all of these features into a luxury car, the $100K price-tag would prevent it from cannibalizing a lot of their other product lines.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#26

Post by npsimons »

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

You ought to watch "Revenge of the Electric Car" (it was available on Netflix streaming last I checked). Even for a documentary that's as ra-ra about EVs as it is, it shows how much blood, sweat and tears Musk has gone through just to get this far. It's been no cakewalk.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#27

Post by run4yourlives »

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

It is that easy, and also that difficult.

Two bicycle mechanics in a small town game us the airplane, but there were a lot of smart people that tried to do just that before them and failed.

It's easy because we only talk about the ones that had everything go right for them.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#28

Post by codex »

pyre wrote: post #21
codex wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory: it all comes down to the maturation of the underlying technology. Tesla has been around for ten years. Why is their mainstream car only coming to market now, after all that time? Part of it is that creating a new car company takes a lot of time, but most of it is that the battery and other technologies have only recently matured enough to make EVs practical. Tesla has been waiting and waiting until this oc…

You're only focusing on the "electric car" part. By all accounts, the rest of the car is an amazing package, even without the electric motor. I think the question is why was Tesla able to push the Model S so far ahead of the current industry in those other respects?

It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. It's because Tesla makes an extra $7.5K from each car via the federal tax credit and an extra $70M each quarter selling ZEV credits. Without these they would not be profitable. So they have more money to apply to the fit and finish of the car than luxury manufacturers which don't make an electric. They also benefit from an enormous, low interest DOE loan.

To date Tesla has lost more than billion dollars which has not been recouped; that's roughly -$50K per car sold in 2013 ($1B / 20K). In contrast, BMW only makes a profit of +$5K on each of their 1.5M cars sold yearly.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#29

Post by technoslut »

bane wrote: post #8

There's something that's been bothering me about this whole thing. Not the Tesla, but the rest of the market. Is that it? Is it that easy? A guy who made his money selling a phonebook and then an online payment processor can read a few books, hire a few people out of the same industry he's disrupting and build a goddamn amazing car (electric or not)? Why can't the existing industry do this? Why all the mediocre produ…

>Why can't the existing industry do this?

It's like any other business that's been extremely successful for so long. It's very difficult to change course unless you are built that way.

We may be talking about electric cars but one of the best things that Tesla has done compared to everyone else is making the interior joyful.

I don't think we've even seen everything of what Tesla can do yet. If they are really interested in giving away refueling for free then that can that speed up the transition away from oil.

Re: “The Tesla Model S is our top-scoring car”

#30

Post by fein »

technoslut wrote: post #5
aviswanathan wrote: post #3

I can attest to this. Initially, I was extremely skeptical that the Tesla was anything great (electric cars haven't been the highlight of the automotive industry despite repeated attempts by established manufacturers). A few weeks ago, however, I had the chance to drive a family friend's Tesla and I was stunned. The Model S seems like a car from the future. Forget the fact that it's completely electric and charges vi…

After test driving a Tesla, I agree with much of what you said and one is the engine noise. I prefer sports cars and especially the sound of a V8/12. To me it's better than listening to music. I do understand that those purchasing a luxury vehicle have different expectations. Those in sedans appreciate cabin silence more than others.

I personally believe that the importance lies in awareness more than anything else. I generally don't run the radio in my car (even though its a piddly 1.8t GTI) because listening to the engine is important. There are all sorts of audible clues to the state of your car that get completely drowned out with the radio blaring.

I have a feeling that this is part of the source of some of the ridiculous "I've been driving my car and the brakes are magically broken" stories involving people who have run their pads and rotors down to bare metal and wonder why they didn't realize this was happening. Same goes for oil leaks, knocking, worn belts, etc.

We have a huge number of drivers in the US, and the 99% have absolutely no clue what the hell is going on with an item they use on a daily basis, hurtling down the freeway with 3000 pounds of steel at 70 mph.

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