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This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

blogs.smithsonianmag.com

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Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#21
post #6

If there was a similar video showing all of the electronic sensors of a modern airliner flowing into the central flight control computer would it would engender the same sort of trepidation about air travel? Should we be afraid of something just because it's "complicated" to someone unfamiliar with the state of the art? There are a lot of valid criticisms you can make about modern financial markets, but claiming that…

I don't see any comments here critiquing HFT simply because it's complicated. Rather, they seem related to whether it's actually a net-positive for society.

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#22
One time I printed out all the code--at that time ASP, HTML, CSS, and Javascript--that got executed for one page load of the homepage of my employer's primary website. I taped the pieces of paper end-to-end and hung them on my wall.

It made a great conversation piece with my coworkers. Non-technical folks (most of them) were astounded that so much text was being interpretted and executed every single time they loaded the homepage (in less than a second).

What was the point? It helped set a certain emotional tone to our conversations. Folks found it a lot harder to demand their project be done "right now, it's easy" when directly confronted with the complexity behind a single page load.

Likewise, stories that highlight the immense speed and complexity of high frequency trading help set an emotional tone of alienation and fear. It helps trigger the same reflex Frankenstein and The Terminator played off of: "maybe we're unleashing technological forces that no one can control."

But of course if you are well and truly versed in a technology, that feeling goes away. I knew that our crappy brochure website was not very complicated as websites go.

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#23

Why is the video showing redundant details? It looks like for each event it shows a packet going to every server. If they arranged the machines on the horizontal axis, time on the vertical axis, and showed 'packet sent' events it would look much simpler. Maybe simple enough to add in details about the trades, like dollar values, instead of pretty expanding explosions.

I believe that part of the actual infrastructure is you send the same message along multiple physical cables; one to each exchange. You also have to account for the delay that the message takes to be received by each exchange. (The speed of light isn't "instant" when you're working on the ms level.)

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#24
If we eventually decide that all of this ridiculously fast bid/offer blitzing by our HFT overlords is a destabilization risk to the economy [1], couldn't we start taxing these transactions, or the bids/offers themselves? This level of high-frequency noise being thrown into the market can't reasonably go on increasing forever, right... at some point we just bury ourselves in a never-ending war of inscrutable, difficult to predict machine trading algorithms, and nobody will be able to translate market movements into anything linkable to reality, right [2]? Shouldn't either market operators or the government at some point in the future start dialing back the traffic with penalties on the sheer number of actions taken?

... or is that just an insane non-starter, since it affects too many rich people in the finance sector and their colleagues rotating through the current regulatory structure?

I think it's an interesting long-term problem faced by society to decide whether we are OK with investment markets becoming completely impossible for "normal", human investors to navigate. It's already rapidly going that way--the capability to profit is already wildly tilted toward firms that act at HFT volume. If a poker site became overrun by bots to the extent that it was no longer fun for humans to play, they would fight back against the bots (as most do to some degree). But with investments... we may be getting to the point where the average day trader needs a 3000U server farm to compete effectively, and then I question whether we've lost sight of why we subsidize and spend money regulating that market at all. It's like a chess league where the grandmasters get to use computers as aids, and the newcomers have to play blindfolded.

[1] Nothing catastrophic has happened yet, but there have been a few flash crashes that have necessitated trading to be shut down, and having to "roll back" trades is never perfectly equitable and only decreases confidence in a market.

[2] Some of those flash crashes were traced back to one overzealous seller that threw HFT's for a loop (read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Flash_Crash -- it is quite interesting). I shudder to think of a day when the market fluctuates wildly and the data is literally too complicated for regulators to trace it back to any identifiable cause. That day is closer than anybody in finance is likely to acknowledge.

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#26
Two things I take away from this

1) Cool use of infographic :)

2) The little dots represent price changes, not trades.

FWIW, some more context around this would be-

All the major exchanges stream their best prices to all the other exchanges.

This is required because US exchanges must execute trades at the National Best Bid or Offer, or NBBO [1].

So how do you track the NBBO. In theory, by having all the exchanges send their best bids and offers to a central Securities Information Processor, or SIP (the 12:00 box) which then disseminates them (which you can see by the waves of stuff it sends out)

In practice, it's slow to go through the SIP on every price movement and the exchanges want to have the best possible information, so the exchanges mostly stream prices directly from the other exchanges (hence the fanout effect on every price movement)

Most of these prices movements don't result in trades, they just represent somebody entering or leaving the market at the BBO.

This feels like a distinction that could have been made better, rather than just saying "yeah, this stuff's complicated."

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_NMS

edit: formatting / citing

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#27
post #7

All comments so far are negative, but I fail to see how this video shows anything other than incredible engineering. The negativity seems to be a result of previous bias.

I cannot see a downside to improved networking infrastructure...and an eager market for advances.

Imagine if HN had an army of animatronic robots run an arm-wrestling tournament every hour to determine which stories reach the front page. That would also be an impressive feat of engineering, but it wouldn't tell us anything about which stories deserve to be on the front page due to their inherent value, so it'd be a huge waste of resources, and make HN worse for readers.

HFTs are not publishing a lot of useful results in AI or game theory. They are in a zero-sum game against each other as well as all legitimate investors, and all their profits come at the expense of people trying to better route society's resources.

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#28
post #18
post #6

If there was a similar video showing all of the electronic sensors of a modern airliner flowing into the central flight control computer would it would engender the same sort of trepidation about air travel? Should we be afraid of something just because it's "complicated" to someone unfamiliar with the state of the art? There are a lot of valid criticisms you can make about modern financial markets, but claiming that…

> but claiming that we are using computers to do things better than we did 10 years ago is a bad thing But they are not using those computer to do something better, they are using those computers to do something that was impossible 10 years ago. The problem I have with HST is what purpose does it serve, other than offer another way to gamble on stock price movements. Now there is nothing new about gambling on stock p…

If you can trade faster, the market can react to information faster. Stocks dropped almost as soon as the tweet was released, without needing to wait for a few major news channels -- and recovered in five minutes after people stopped panicking.[1]

[1] http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/04/24/white-house-attacked-o...

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#29

Two things I take away from this 1) Cool use of infographic :) 2) The little dots represent price changes, not trades. FWIW, some more context around this would be- All the major exchanges stream their best prices to all the other exchanges. This is required because US exchanges must execute trades at the National Best Bid or Offer, or NBBO [1]. So how do you track the NBBO. In theory, by having all the exchanges sen…

That's a nice explanation of the graphics.

I'm still having a very hard time understanding what kinds of events would cause so many rapid price changes. So many dots in just half a second -- even when time-stretched to 5 minutes! Are those price changes meaningful at all?

Re: This Is What One Half Second of High Speed Trading Looks Like

#30

One time I printed out all the code--at that time ASP, HTML, CSS, and Javascript--that got executed for one page load of the homepage of my employer's primary website. I taped the pieces of paper end-to-end and hung them on my wall. It made a great conversation piece with my coworkers. Non-technical folks (most of them) were astounded that so much text was being interpretted and executed every single time they loaded…

I really like that. Did you print libraries and the like, or just the stuff you wrote? I could see value in having a bound version of jQuery if it wasn't on the wall, "I didn't write this, but I know what is in it and how to use it."
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