Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you. • Hacker News Board

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#121

Post by smokeyj » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:53 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #119

smokeyj wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you be OK with forced labor, ie slavery, if that was their only way to be competitive and not "go hungry"? You're equating forced labor to slavery. I agree! I also agree taxation is a way of extracting labor via the use of force. So the question is, why do you support slavery so much? Ideologically speaking, I prefer to argue out of principle -- a main one being non-agression. So no, I don't support forced la…

Aren't all laws ultimately enforced by the threat of violence? Including the ones that forbid violence?

> Aren't all laws ultimately enforced by the threat of violence?

Just the ones created by a monopolistic force on violence.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#122

Post by fryguy » Thu, May 09, 2013, 12:10 AM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #34

fryguy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the person that's paying for the product being taxed, and the merchant is merely collecting that tax. At least, that would be my interpretation.

If a foreign state I've never stepped foot in can set laws I have to obey, force me to remit money to them, and audit my accounting under penalty of imprisonment, it doesn't really matter who's doing the paying. Today, only people within the state can be forced to obey and be audited by that state. This bill gives the power for a state to create and enforce arbitrary laws on non-citizens. It's at least a sufficiently…

Don't you have to pay duty in order to export goods to another country? Isn't it the same thing?

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#123

Post by wolfpackk » Thu, May 09, 2013, 5:24 AM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #97

will1000 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that America is doing many things wrong, and has many challenges facing it now and likely well into the future. However, I would also like to remind you that America is as a nation, 237 years old . It is a country that was founded by rebels and is often in some sort of crisis and or revolution at any given time. Despite(because of?) this, great things and great people consistently grow from here, and I have n…

These aren't "issues of the day." These are systemic and fundamental problems that lead to downfalls of nations. During our greatest advancements, we maintained a well oiled machine of an educated constituency, a public-private partnership and a middle class bursting at the seams with potential and opportunity. Those things have all either been stripped, scammed or atrophied out of the public, and what we're left wit…

People in Silicon Valley are making cat picture apps, haha right. You fucking idiot, gtfo people like you are shitting up the forums. America is more intelligent and wealthy than any nation in the history of the universe, stop crying on the internet and go be a part of it.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#124

Post by coldtea » Thu, May 09, 2013, 7:50 PM UTC

smokeyj wrote: post #120

coldtea wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're equating forced labor to slavery. I agree! You don't have to agree. That's the definition of slavery. > I also agree taxation is a way of extracting labor via the use of force. So the question is, why do you support slavery so much? Well, I never agreed that "taxation is a way of extracting labor via the use of force", so I don't know who you "also agree with" there. Taxation, in my books, is the voluntary (…

> Well, I never agreed that "taxation is a way of extracting labor via the use of force" You don't have to agree, it's empirically evident. Try not paying your taxes and guys with guns will come get it. Now, maybe these guys with guns are justified -- but that's strictly your opinion. > Taxation, in my books, is the voluntary (as decided via the democratic process) By definition, your definition is wrong. Non-democra…

>You don't have to agree, it's empirically evident. Try not paying your taxes and guys with guns will come get it. Now, maybe these guys with guns are justified -- but that's strictly your opinion.

Strictly my opinion? Hardly. Some neo-liberals aside (and them constrained in the US) it's the opinion of most of the world. Some people want lower taxes, others disagree with specific tax laws, but statistically speaking, nobody is against taxes in toto. The issue does not even come into play into protests (except from bizarro minorities). People all over the world demand that their government is brought down, that they get better pay, they corrupted officials are punished, and tons of other things -- but "no taxes" is just not on the table.

>By definition, your definition is wrong. Non-democratic governments impose taxes as well.

Which is beside the point. Taxation WITHIN a democracy is voluntary and decided via the democratic process. That a dictatorship can also have taxation doesn't change this. A dictatorship can also maintain an educational system. That doesn't make it non democratic when a democracy maintains one.

>Why do you define "voluntary" relative to the political landscape?

For reasons obvious to any who accepts democracy and is not Ayn Rand? Because a dictatorship forces the people to do stuff, whereas in a democracy they get to vote for what they want to be done. That some people don't agree with the result it doesn't matter, as long as the majority of people agrees with the process -- ie. the polling for the aggregate popular opinion as expressed in presidential candidates and party platforms and representatives.

>You're telling me slavery never really happened in the US, because it was voluntary labor -- as decided by the "democratic process"? Why do you defend slavery with such fervor?

Why do you insist in using BS non-sequiturs to make some bizarro point?

Slavery was not voluntary labor because the subjects of slavery weren't part of the democratic process that allowed it to happen. For one, they didn't vote. Even worse, they were victims of abduction and deprived of any citizen rights. They were mere objects to private masters.

A tax paying citizen is not that.

Re: Go ahead, pass the Internet tax. Your (foreign) competitors thank you.

#125

Post by smokeyj » Thu, May 09, 2013, 10:50 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #124

smokeyj wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, I never agreed that "taxation is a way of extracting labor via the use of force" You don't have to agree, it's empirically evident. Try not paying your taxes and guys with guns will come get it. Now, maybe these guys with guns are justified -- but that's strictly your opinion. > Taxation, in my books, is the voluntary (as decided via the democratic process) By definition, your definition is wrong. Non-democra…

> You don't have to agree, it's empirically evident. Try not paying your taxes and guys with guns will come get it. Now, maybe these guys with guns are justified -- but that's strictly your opinion. Strictly my opinion? Hardly. Some neo-liberals aside (and them constrained in the US) it's the opinion of most of the world. Some people want lower taxes, others disagree with specific tax laws, but statistically speaking…

> Strictly my opinion?

In the sense that it's not fact. It's a personal preference which you and many others hold.

> Hardly. Some neo-liberals aside (and them constrained in the US) it's the opinion of most of the world.

And here lies the crux of your argument. That by being a majority you're justified to act in a way you normally wouldn't. Taking x % of someone's income is normally unjust, but if you outnumber the guy -- all is fair. Because a mob approves of theft, you redefine it as taxation. I can go with that, but don't paint me as the bizarro one.