Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others • Hacker News Board

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#71

Post by jarrett » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:01 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #57

jarrett wrote: post #49

Did anyone read the part where he explains that he is not being represented by a lawyer? ("REQUEST FOR CIVIL LOCAL RULE 3-9(b) EXEMPTION AND RETIREMENT.") That seems a very unusual decision indeed. Does anyone have any idea why he would do it that way? Is it probably a money issue?

If the PR (making the tech community aware of the problems with CA's MTA laws, getting the VCs to stop ignoring it, and perhaps getting the legislature to reconsider how they treat startups that try to get licensed) is more important than the result of the suit, you wouldn't want to bankrupt yourself over the suit.

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought--a money issue. I have no idea whether Aaron Greenspan has money to burn on something like this. The fact that he was bringing suit on behalf of his computer company made me immediately imagine a monied plaintiff. But that could be a false assumption.

I agree that the PR could be beneficial to the industry as a whole. Let's hope this doesn't mess up a bunch of legitimate businesses in the process.

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#72

Post by apaprocki » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:02 PM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #66

On page 35, in order to represent his own company as a non-lawyer, Greenspan appeals for an exception to the rule that his corporation, as the plaintiff, must retain legal counsel. He bases this request on (among other reasoning) the Citizens United decision. Like Greenspan, IANAL, but I suspect his complaint will die quickly on that basis alone.

The court replied on 5/8 that he has until 5/22 to retain qualified counsel or it will be dismissed without prejudice.

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#73

Post by wpietri » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:03 PM UTC

jarrett wrote: post #49

Did anyone read the part where he explains that he is not being represented by a lawyer? ("REQUEST FOR CIVIL LOCAL RULE 3-9(b) EXEMPTION AND RETIREMENT.") That seems a very unusual decision indeed. Does anyone have any idea why he would do it that way? Is it probably a money issue?

Funny! After reading the first few pages, I said, "What lawyer is willing to put his name on this garbage?" and paged around in the document. Only to find no lawyer's name at the bottom, just his own. And now you confirm it.

Is there some way that this isn't idiotic? I have seen a federal judge in full-on "this case is a waste of my time" mode, and it is fearsome. I would never file a document with a federal court without having a very experienced lawyer involved.

Of course, I also wouldn't step to all of those rich and powerful people without a clear and sensible plan of action. If Greenspan has one, I can't extract it from this document. Is he a total loon?

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#74

Post by rdl » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:06 PM UTC

I wonder if the smaller companies named in that should just do the absolute minimum and free ride on the HNW and big company/funds who will fight this without being hurt as much by the legal expenses. I know Coinbase raised $5mm, but they shouldn't burn even $250k on this suit. All the individuals are pretty high net worth, at least.

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#75

Post by tzs » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

I'd give my initial opinion based on a first light reading of the complaint, but I'm afraid Greenspan might find a way to construe that as money transmission and add me to the suit.

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#76

Post by apaprocki » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:07 PM UTC

http://ia801700.us.archive.org/20/items/gov.uscourts.cand.26...

"2013-05-08 Order to Show Cause ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE.

If, by 5/22/2013, an attorney qualified to practice in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California does not appear in this action to represent Plaintiff, the court will dismiss the action without prejudice. No hearing will be held on the order to show cause unless otherwise ordered by the court. Signed by Judge Edward J. Davila on 5/8/2013. (ejdlc1, COURT STAFF) (Filed on 5/8/2013) (Additional attachment(s) added on 5/8/2013: # (1) Certificate of Service) (ecg, COURT STAFF)."

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#77

Post by Moto7451 » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:08 PM UTC

jluxenberg wrote: post #6

Some context: (1) Think Computer Corporation built FaceCash ( https://www.facecash.com/ ) a mobile payment solution (2) Aaron Greenspan is Think's President and CEO Maybe he's trying to get these companies to lobby against "money transmitter" regulation.

Some additional context about past litigation:

http://abovethelaw.com/2012/06/facebook-litigation-continues...

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#78

Post by cinquemb » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:12 PM UTC

dangrossman wrote: post #43

igravious wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, is this why all these tech giants use a non-money credit system for their stores and networks: Sony, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon(?), ... there must be many more.

Money transmission means moving money from one person to another. If you could use your Xbox to send money to a friend who also has an Xbox, then Microsoft would need a money transmitter license. Selling products, services, or "credits" for products or services, is not money transmission and doesn't require any kind of financial license.

So in the case of AirBnb, their service is helping people find places to stay?

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#79

Post by Asparagirl » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:12 PM UTC

EarthLaunch wrote: post #12

Since title changes are being done anyway, this one should be changed to "Aaron Greenspan". There's only one famous Greenspan, and it's not this one.

That's not strictly true, but actor Jason Alexander isn't usually known by his birth surname.

Re: Aaron Greenspan sues Facebook, Sequoia, Andreesen, YC, others

#80

Post by dangrossman » Wed, May 08, 2013, 11:13 PM UTC

apaprocki wrote: post #76

http://ia801700.us.archive.org/20/items/gov.uscourts.cand.26... "2013-05-08 Order to Show Cause ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE. If, by 5/22/2013, an attorney qualified to practice in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California does not appear in this action to represent Plaintiff, the court will dismiss the action without prejudice. No hearing will be held on the order to show cause unless otherwise…

He has to hire a lawyer or the case won't move forward, because you can't represent yourself when filing as a corporation. We'll find out within 14 days if Greenspan actually intended to take this case to court, or if it's just about the awareness/PR it creates.